HEARING OFFICER MARY TAVES: On the record, please.

The hearing will be in order. This is a formal hearing in the matter of Avaya Communications Inc., Case 17-UC-239, before the National Labor Relations Board.

The Hearing Officer appearing for the National Labor Relations Board is Mary G. Taves.

All parties have been informed of the procedures at formal hearing before the Board by service of a statement of standard procedures with the notice of hearing. I have additional copies of this statement for distribution if any party wishes more.

Will counsel please state their appearances for the record?

For the Petitioner?

MR. KING: Clarence J. King.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And for the Employer?

MR. NOLAN: Terrence J. Nolan.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Are there any other appearances?

(No response.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Let the record show no response.

I now propose to receive the formal papers. They have been marked for identification as Board's Exhibit 1(a) through 1(d) inclusive, Exhibit 1(d) being an index and description of the entire exhibit.

The exhibit has been shown to all parties. Are there any objections?

(Board Exhibit 1(a) through 1(d) marked for identification.)

MR. KING: None.

MR. NOLAN: None from the Employer.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Hearing no objections, the formal papers are received into evidence.

(Board Exhibit 1(a) through 1(d) received into evidence.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And I would ask, are the parties -- are the names of the parties correct on the Petition? Avaya Communications Inc. and International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 1614?

MR. NOLAN: Actually, I would like to correct the name of the Employer.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. I'll take a motion to do that. What is the correct name of the Employer, please?

MR. NOLAN: The correct name of the Employer is Avaya Inc., no comma.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. No 'Communications?'

MR. NOLAN: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Would you agree to that motion to amend the name of the Employer?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. The name of the Employer is amended to reflect that it is Avaya Inc., no comma between the two.

Now are there any motions to intervene in these proceedings to be submitted to the Hearing Officer at this time?

(No response.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Hearing no response, there are no motions for intervention.

What I would like to do now is have the Employer, if they could, please, give a brief statement of the Employer's business and we hopefully can reach a stipulation on the commerce of the Employer.

Could you tell me what Avaya is, please?

MR. NOLAN: Certainly. Avaya Inc. is a manufacturer and servicer of communications equipment for both enterprise, that is business and government type communications, as well as with respect to the entity at issue here, Connectivity Solutions, what are known as service providers, the phone companies, if you will.

Avaya is a successor to Lucent Technologies, Inc. from which it was spun off, effective October 1st, 2001. Lucent is, in turn, a successor to AT&T Corp., which is a successor to Western Electric which is the Employer in this certification.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: And, yes, the Employer can stipulate that it does reach the minimum threshold for commerce and therefore the Board does have jurisdiction.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Would you so stipulate to the description of the Employer for those purposes? For purposes of jurisdiction?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And is the -- could you please state what facility is at issue here today?

MR. NOLAN: The Avaya facility at issue is the Omaha facility at 12000 I Street, Omaha, Nebraska.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And would the Union agree that that is the facility at issue in the hearing today?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And would the parties stipulate that the Employer conducts at least -- the Employer manufacturers and sells and ships goods valued in excess of $50,000 to points -- from its Omaha facility to points directly outside the State of Oklahoma.

MR. KING: Nebraska?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Nebraska. I don't know why I am in Oklahoma today.

MR. NOLAN: Both states.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. (Laughter.) For Nebraska as well as well as Oklahoma.

MR. NOLAN: And 48 others.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you. And you would stipulate? The Union?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And can we get a stipulation please that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 1614 is a labor organization within the meaning of the National Labor Relations Act?

MR. NOLAN: So stipulate.

MR. KING: We agree.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Now it is my understanding that the parties have a collective bargaining agreement, is that correct?

MR. NOLAN: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And I would like to -- does anyone plan on putting that into the record?

MR. KING: Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Presumably. We might as well call it a joint exhibit.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes, maybe we could stipulate that into the record at this time as well as did anyone plan on introducing a copy of the certification?

MR. NOLAN: I believe that is in the contract.

MR. KING: It is on page --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is referenced in the contract?

MR. KING: It is referenced.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And actually I have a copy of the certification. Would the parties agree that this could be entered into the record as Board Exhibit 2?

(Board Exhibit 2 marked for identification.)

MR. KING: Certainly.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Hearing no objection, the copy of the parties' certification of representative being between Local 1614 and Western Electric which was one of the Company's that Mr. Nolan referenced was a predecessor of Avaya, the Board Exhibit 2 would be received.

(Board Exhibit 2 received into evidence.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And then if we could have a copy of the contract entered into the record as Joint Exhibit 1. We only need one copy, is that right?

MR. NOLAN: That is fine. Do you mind parting with that copy?

MR. KING: No, I don't.

MR. NOLAN: No, I mean, we have copies. I don't mean to steal all the copies from you guys but if you --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: You can just give it to the court reporter. Thank you.

MR. KING: Joint 1?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Joint 1.

(Joint Exhibit 1 marked for identification and received in evidence.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Now let me just ask the parties, it is my understanding that on the record -- we have had some off the record discussions about the fact that there are six job classifications in issue in this unit clarification petition and we will go through those in just a moment but what I would like is the parties' position on whether they consider the contract that has been entered into the record as Joint Exhibit 1 to be a bar to this Petition in any way.

Does the Union consider the contract a bar to considering whether these positions should be included in the unit?

MR. KING: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And the Employer?

MR. NOLAN: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And we will have some testimony but it is my understanding and would the parties stipulate that the job classifications in dispute were created at the Omaha facility or came into existence at the Omaha facility after the contract was negotiated and executed?

MR. NOLAN: We can't agree to that.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: We have found at least one, perhaps two, of the titles that do predate the contract.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: All titles postdate the certification but not necessarily the contract.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Then the question arises as to whether the Employer will be contending in this hearing as to whether this contract itself would operate as a bar to inclusion of those positions?

MR. NOLAN: I apologize and I misunderstood your prior question. So, yes, we may raise the contract bar defense on at least one of the titles.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right. Is it possible to stipulate that as to the other classifications, the contract is not a bar?

MR. NOLAN: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Let's go through and do that then. Which classification does the Employer contend the contract may serve as a bar to inclusion of that classification?

MR. NOLAN: Yes, the titles where we likely will raise the contract bar defense are the purchasing specialist --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: -- and the RFNAV -- that is RF navigator coordinator -- or -- RF navigator coordinator, right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. For purposes of the record, are the parties in agreement that the six job classifications in issue today are: customer service specialists, assistant project managers, blocked invoice coordinators, RFNAV administrators, inventory administrators and purchasing specialists?

Are the parties in agreement that those are the six job classifications in issue today?

MR. NOLAN: Yes, that is correct. And just to clarifying what I previously said, I referred to the RFNAV coordinator position. What I meant to say was the RFNAV administrator position.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you.

MR. NOLAN: And with that we certainly stipulate to that.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And is that the Union's understanding of what we are here today to hear as well, on those six classifications?

MR. KING: With just some -- there is at least one document that refers to associate customer service specialist.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Would we be in agreement that that is the same position that those are interchangeable titles for the customer service specialist or associate customer service specialist, they are the same people in issue?

MR. NOLAN: Actually this is not a title we are familiar with.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So the only -- there is no -- if there is such a title, there is no one in that position? What you call the position is a customer service specialist, is that right?

MR. NOLAN: Customer service specialist, sometimes referred to as a customer service representative.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: But the associate customer service specialist, we are not sure what that is.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Well, we will develop that on the record, if not, but it is my understanding that these are the six job classifications we are going to be talking about today. And now we have -- the Employer may be contending that the purchasing specialist and the RFNAV administrator should not be included in the unit because including those positions in the unit other than them on being included because of the community of interest factors should also not be included because they are barred by the contract.

Now as to the other four positions, it is my understanding and the Employer would stipulate that there is no contention that the contract would bar inclusion in the unit -- the contract itself? Is that -- would you so stipulate?

MR. NOLAN: Yes, those are the four positions.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And you would enter into that stipulation as well?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Now that we have somewhat discussed the six classifications that are in issue, could the parties please give us a brief -- just a brief -- statement on the record as to their position as to the inclusion of the six or the exclusion?

I'll ask the Employer to speak first as to why the six job classifications should not be included in the appropriate unit.

MR. NOLAN: Certainly. Starting with the customer service specialist position, the customer service specialists in Omaha work in what is known as our Customer Care Center which is a separate facility; that is, it is physically separate from the remaining facility. It is connected by a common hallway but it is a separate room.

Those folks came to that work when the position was created approximately two years ago because immediately prior to Lucent spinning off Avaya that work was done in St. Louis, Missouri.

There was a much larger customer service facility and as a result of the spin off of Avaya, a portion of that work needed to be removed from the St. Louis facility and moved somewhere within what was going to be Avaya, the logical place for it being in Omaha because that is where the portion of Avaya known as Connectivity Solutions, which is at issue here, resides.

So the customer service specialists are the same people that were doing this work in St. Louis for years and years and years who are now doing it in Omaha.

Historically they have never been represented by any union and the sort of work they do is dramatically different from the work that the folks in the represented universe do or have done. The most critical -- although certainly not the only distinction -- is their customer interface.

The customer service specialists are just that. They serve the needs of the customer, starting with the product ordering process and taking it through to dealing with the customers' needs in terms of scheduling deliveries, providing technical assistance on Avaya's products, working with the customer to resolve disputes over such things as pricing and delivery.

So they really are a world unto themselves doing work that no one else in the Omaha facility, let alone in the represented universe, is doing. And for those reasons it is Avaya's position that that work is no properly included within the certified unit.

With respect to the -- and just mentally I work this way because it relates to the number of employees. With respect to the purchasing --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: How many employees are in issue for the customer service specialist position?

MR. NOLAN: Seventeen.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Seventeen?

MR. NOLAN: Um-hmm.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Go ahead.

MR. NOLAN: And at the time of the Petition, it is possible that was a larger number. We have had some reductions in that organization. And, of course, you know, because these folks are not nor have they been represented, their terms and conditions are that of other Avaya -- what we call management employees, not to suggest that they are supervisors but in Avaya if you are not represented you are a management employee.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: These folks have been management employees. Historically they are subject to all the same terms and conditions as the other management employees, salary, bonuses, which are discretionary and that sort of thing and, obviously, not subject to the same terms and conditions as the folks in the represented universe who are covered by the contract.

With respect to the purchasing specialist, and here we are dealing with approximately 13 employees in the title of purchasing specialist. As a threshold matter with respect to the contract bar, the position has been in existence for at least 10 years, so it predates the 1998 contract.

These folks really have no place in the unit because not only is the job they do radically different from anything that the unit employees are doing, the skill and qualifications level is leagues above that of the represented folks.

Every single one of these purchasing specialists has a college degree. Most of them have a master's degree. The rest are working towards master's degrees. They all have a professional certification which -- and one of my witnesses will say exactly what it is so I won't take the chance of butchering the name but it is something that is recognized in the purchasing profession as your ticket so to speak akin to the CPA for that accountant.

So these folks are essentially professional people. What do they do? They are charged with procuring all of the raw materials and capital equipment that Avaya uses to make the stuff it makes, such as the structured cabling and the communications hardware that it makes.

These are the people that go out and literally buy the copper, the steel, the tin. They buy it in large quantities. They are working $20-$30-million deals. They have direct interface with Avaya's vendors. Their positions bring them sometimes throughout the world because they support not only purchasing for the Omaha facility but purchasing for Connectivity's facilities elsewhere in the world.

So they travel a good bit. They are sort of working on their own inasmuch as they have access via the laptop to the office from wherever they are and unlike the represented folks they don't need to be there a specific shift or schedule.

So they are doing -- they are serving a very important professional function for Avaya. Further underscoring that, they are constantly dealing with Avaya's lawyers in New Jersey to negotiate contracts. These are the people that go out with, you know, the XYZ copper company and sign on the bottom line for multi-million-dollar deals.

If you compare that some of the 'purchasing' that some of the represented folks have done over the years and perhaps are even doing now, the sort of purchasing they do is what we refer to as non-discretionary purchasing. They buy smaller ticket items where they have very little discretion in where to get it from, what to pay for it, those sorts of things. And in no event do they get involved in the procurement of raw materials or capital equipment for the facility.

So you will likely hear some testimony that some of the represented folks have done some purchasing on behalf of Avaya but it is not the sort of big ticket discretionary purchasing that the purchasing specialists do. And I think you will also be satisfied that there is a good bit of evidence that to the extent represented folks are doing any purchasing they don't have the qualifications or the skill levels that the purchasing specialists do.

So that is pretty much our position with respect to the purchasing specialists.

Moving down the line -- and, again, just going in order of number of employees potentially affected -- that brings us to the inventory administrators of which there are currently six employees in that position.

The inventory administrator position was created within the last two years part and parcel with the implementation company wide of a system known as SAP which is a front -- it is an across-the-board software package that monitors and controls Avaya's production processes from start to finish, ordering, inventory, actual production, delivery. It is all controlled by SAP.

SAP started to cause us to realize that there were a lot of problems with the system inasmuch as vendors may not have been getting paid on time because orders were coming in, you know, disarray, data was being entered incorrectly into SAP.

When you implement such a massive software package inevitably there will be glitches, there will be problems. Well, that wasn't making our vendors happy so we had some folks -- some of whom started working for Avaya on a contract basis -- who came in.

They are essentially SAP gurus, if you will, and they are the ones who can troubleshoot SAP problems and the correlating what are called blocked invoices. If an invoice can't get through the system, it is known as a blocked invoice. These are the folks that troubleshoot that stuff along the way.

Now they are all highly skilled people, high degree of computer literacy, very well versed in the SAP system which these days has become pretty much an industry standard within the manufacturing industry for system administration.

These people are all very well versed in SAP. They are all college educated folks and they are essentially professionals as well.

There are some represented folks who from time to time do what you are going to hear referred to as blocked invoice work. There are some represented folks who may at the direction of an inventory administrator somehow remedy a situation which will allow a vendor to get paid. But it is more of a clerical nature and, in fact, it is done at the direction of the inventory administrator.

And further, the -- the represented folks that get involved in this process, they can only take it to a point and then where they stop, the inventory administrator picks up.

The inventory administrator coordinates a lot of the activities that some of the represented people are engaged in. None of them have direct supervisory responsibility but they are coordinating represented folks.

They also train both the represented folks as well as other employees at the facility in the implementation and use of SAP as well as preventive measures to insure that we don't get these number of blockages and to insure that these things aren't happening on an ongoing basis.

That is really what we are looking at in terms of the inventory administrators. And I just wanted to check with a note and make sure I have fully covered that because something is nagging me. If you would indulge me for a moment.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Sure.

MR. NOLAN: Yes, I feel I am straying into another title, the blocked invoice coordinator, which I will remedy that but let me just make sure that I have given the inventory administrators position its due.

Okay. I have been referring to the term of blocked invoices, the sort of problems that the inventory administrators are dealing with. They are more inventory discrepancies. There is, you know, the amount of stuff that is supposed to be there and vice versa; also a system-driven situation which the inventory administrators are trained to resolve.

So again in some a considerably higher level position both in terms skill and responsibility than the tiered employees that do this sort of work. And, also, I should add that the inventory administrators are supervised by someone who solely supervises the inventory administrators, does not supervise also represented employees and that is also the case for the prior two titles which I failed to mention.

Moving on to the remaining three titles each of which potentially affects one employee, we have the title of assistant project manager. The assistant project manager is -- to understand that position you have to understand what is project management. It is the entire process by which a product is made.

Here is what Avaya makes. Here is how it gets made. When Avaya decides to roll out a project, the assistant project manager is the person that coordinates the implementation of that project into the production process, monitoring it every step of the way.

In so doing, they are also coordinating represented employees. They are working with represented employees, delegating tasks to them routinely. They do not have actual supervisory responsibility but they are routinely delegating to those folks and taking them through the process, again, to get the product from its inception phase to its production phase.

They are a critical part of the process. Interestingly but for some budgetary constraints and otherwise corporate inertia, the assistant project manager would be a supervisor but the organization hasn't had the opportunity to fully flesh that out as to how that would work.

But certainly the incumbent is more than capable of supervisory responsibility and can handle that aspect of the job if it is ever grown to include supervisory responsibility.

Like the other positions, the assistant project manager obviously is a management employee without -- with terms and conditions set as they are for all other Avaya management employees and not pursuant to the Union contract.

The blocked invoice coordinator -- and I did start talking about that somewhat before when I was referring to the inventory administrator, that job focuses more specifically on this issue of blocked invoices and Avaya was having a situation where these invoices were getting blocked, vendors were not getting paid. We decided to create this position.

And, in fact, the witness you are going to hear from is the person who created the position, and did so because she considered whether the tiered employees that were involved in that process -- and when I say tiered, by the way, I am referring to the represented employees -- whether the represented employees involved in that process were effectively remedying the situation and she concluded that they weren't so she created this position which allows a management employee to coordinate the efforts of represented people to deal with these blocked invoices.

And, again, that has been a successful endeavor. Inherent in that position is also a very high level of understanding, not just of the SAP system but of the entire infrastructure of the plant and the facility, you know, how invoices are ordered, how -- or rather how products are ordered, how invoices are paid, vendor relationships, all those sort of more professional type functions that the represented employees whom the blocked invoice coordinator coordinates do not handle.

And with that, of course, are the necessary additional professional qualifications that the blocked invoice coordinator has which the represented employees that assist in that process do not have.

I think we -- that leaves one title which I would like to briefly state our position on and that is the RF navigator administrator and, quite frankly, I don't think we need to even belabor what that person does substantively because they are supervisors and they have -- I think the exact number is nine -- perhaps ten -- I think nine employees that they actually supervise.

And they manifest all the indicia of supervisory status. They are involved in the scheduling of their work. They are involved in the discipline process. They are involved in adjusting discipline or other union issues at the first step of the grievance process. They can recommend termination which will likely be acted upon, if necessary. They can assign overtime.

Pretty much any supervisory responsibility that we are allowed the Union contract, the person in that position has. So our position is very easy on that one in that they are supervisors.

With all due respect to some of my witnesses who I am sure cringed at my informal discussion of what some of their people do, that is where we coming from in terms of why these positions are not properly included in the unit.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So the Employer's contention is that one of these individuals is a supervisor. You used the term manager quite loosely. Are you contending that under the -- that those individuals that you called -- or talked about as managers such as the blocked invoice coordinator or the inventory administrators are managers within the meaning of the Act where they effectuate and formulate policies on behalf of management?

You are not contending they are managerial employees? That is just -- am I right or wrong?

MR. NOLAN: That is correct. I mean --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: We don't -- we don't view any of these positions as management positions under the Act.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: We view one of them as a supervisor.

The term management employees at Avaya is our generic term for all non-represented employees.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right.

MR. NOLAN: So you will hear witnesses refer to some of their people as management employees. That simply means they are non-represented.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Right. And the sole thrust of the Employer's argument as to all but the RFNAV administrator will be that they do not share a sufficient community of interest with the represented employees to justify their inclusion in the unit?

MR. NOLAN: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Okay. I just wanted to make that clear.

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Would the Union please tell me what their position is in regards to the inclusion of the six classifications in dispute.

MR. KING: Sure. As defined by Board Exhibit 2, the Union is recognized to include all salaried employees at the facility. I don't believe that is in dispute.

And the customer service specialists, while we talk about being separate from the facility, I believe we are talking the production floor versus the actual location of the facility which is rather extensive actually.

There was some discussion on where these people previously -- and I am sorry if I am going into some sort of rebuttal but I am going from a --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: That is fine.

MR. KING: -- previous discussion -- discussion of where the work has been performed historically prior to the spin off of Avaya from Lucent and I believe our testimony will show that while some of the work may have come directly from St. Louis, the work has been performed at other facilities throughout the country by the Employer and that it is in some of the facilities represented positions.

The list of job duties that are performed at this time have been performed in the past and continue to be performed at this time by our workers, presently classified under the unit.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And what position under the collective bargaining agreement would correspond to the customer service representatives?

MR. KING: The job titles would be material management analyst and senior material management analyst for all those. And, in fact, I get picked on on these. There are a lot of different titles used. Material management analyst is also Tier 4 which was referred to in the past. I believe that Tier 4 refers to the pay rating.

Material management analyst is a broad description of the job and then underneath that I believe there are some more defined descriptions. Planner is one term that is used regularly but under the broad terms in the collective bargaining agreement under the job descriptions you will see the occupational code of material management analyst and senior material management analyst.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And these are job classifications that are set forth at Appendix A-8 --

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- as the occupational job classifications? Those are the unit represented job classifications on page 29 of the contract?

MR. KING: Yes. They are listed on page 29 and they continue on with job descriptions on page B, I believe.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Okay.

MR. NOLAN: Just to clarify, I believe you referred to Appendix. It is actually Article 8 that we are talking about.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Article 8, Appendix 8-A?

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Page 29 of the collective bargaining agreement.

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Go ahead. I'm sorry for interrupting. I just want the reader of the record to know where the job -- the unit descriptions are.

MR. KING: And the occupational job classification that is the term that is used in the collective bargaining agreement of material management analyst and senior material management analyst will apply for all positions that are in question.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. KING: If you move on to the purchasing specialists, the contention it has been in existence for greater than ten years is one that I have just heard today so rather than respond to that, the postings that were made during the term of the contract, in our eyes, in the Union's eyes, created a position that was different than what had existed or we were aware existed in the past.

They did -- there are many terms of the posting that -- of the management postings that were very similar and include work that was done and continues to be done in this situation under the bargaining unit.

There is some discussion on the levels of expenditures that these individuals are allowed to do and there are set terms on that. However, we believe that the job as posted was paramount to that, the senior material management analyst.

Inventory administrator, on this, as was properly stated, was created in the last two years as a result of SAP, a term I am not exactly sure of the acronym, but involves a computer software package, I believe, that came in to ID a lot of problems. Well, it ID'd problems in some cases and some cases created some of these problems but a lot of these problems existed in the past.

And you will hear testimony that vendors not getting paid had occurred prior to two years ago and it was resolved by tiered employees in the past and continues to be resolved by tiered employees.

The work that is being done by these individuals, while we are not casting aspersions as to their computer literacy, is work that is done by the tiered employees and doesn’t require a coding or anything of that kind in support of the SAP software. So, again, they fall under the material management analyst and senior material management analyst.

I'll deal with the two together, blocked invoice coordinator and assistant project manager. It appears what they have done is taken one of our positions and tried to -- let me rephrase that.

Prior these two positions were historically -- the blocked invoice coordinator's work was done day to day -- there are many blocked invoices that come up -- I'll get their as the numbers that occur on regular shift -- and they are handled that way. This appears to be a position that is used to expedite certain invoices, however, it is no different than what is done with the rest of the individual problems that occur.

The assistant project manager does provide assistance to the product line -- or the project manager. That has been done in the past and you will hear testimony again that these situations existed in the past, that this job was recently created and it usurped some the responsibilities from those positions into a management-type position.

The last thing, on the RFNAV position, again, on the supervisory -- as a result of discussions this morning -- I have talked to Cory and she says it has evolved into a supervisory position but upon its creation it stood as the others were. There was a lot of overlapping and it appeared to be pulling of work from the bargaining unit into a management position.

We will discuss -- continue to discuss the supervisory level appropriate and make changes to our --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: If you do believe -- I mean, for purposes of saving time, I would say that if you do believe that it has supervisory indicia, and we are going to resolve that issue, you know, try to resolve it and just stipulating that that position is excluded from the unit would probably be the way to go if you do truly believe that the person now possesses supervisory authority. Because if it is that clear that you think it is probably true, then that is the finding we would make as well.

All right. Just for my edification, it appears that these positions, these unit positions -- I am looking down through these job classifications and I am just having a little bit of trouble and I am sure somebody is going to testify. This is not a production and maintenance unit? Am I right in my --

MR. NOLAN: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- belief? And this -- is this like production support type people or how would you classify these people?

MR. NOLAN: That is, I think an accurate characterization.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. You have more professional type people but just represented?

MR. NOLAN: Actually the majority of the unit is clerical.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Is it more of a clerical type unit?

MR. KING: Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: Casually we refer to it as many different types of units. Casually we will either refer to them as a clerical unit and sometimes we even refer to them as salaried employees which is merely a contrast to the production and maintenance unit which we refer to as the hourly employees.

They are still non-exempt employees; it is just that they get paid a weekly salary so it -- you know, it is --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Okay.

MR. NOLAN: Different terminology.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I was reading through these job classifications and oftentimes you can't tell what someone does by reading through a job classification.

All right. Let's go off the record for a second.

(Off the record.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: On the record.

In off-the-record discussions, we have decided that it would be best for the Employer to begin with the presentation of evidence. Mr. Nolan, would you call your first witness?

MR. NOLAN: Please. The Employer calls Mr. Stan Mason.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: You have a long walk up here, Mr. Mason, and your chair is right up here.

Off the record.

(Off the record.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: On the record.

In off the record discussions, before Mr. Mason begins his testimony, the parties have reached a stipulation concerning the unit classifications.

The parties would agree that the unit classifications, the names of the job classifications included in the unit would be contained in Article 8, Appendix 8-A on page 29 of their collective bargaining agreement and that the number of employees in unit classifications contained in Appendix 8-A is approximately 146.

And that the number of employees in the material management analyst and senior material management analyst positions that the Union believes would most closely approximate those who are in the disputed classifications are approximately 43 to 45.

Would the parties so stipulate?

MR. NOLAN: I think it might actually be a little more than that. I mean, if you want to call it 50 -- approximately 50.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Approximately 50?

MR. KING: That is all right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. The stipulation is received.

Mr. Mason, would you raise your right hand, please?

Whereupon,

STAN MASON,

having first been duly sworn, was called as a witness and examined and testified as follows:

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Thank you.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Good morning, Stan.

A Good morning.

Q Stan, who do you work for?

A I work for Avaya Inc.

Q And what is your position with Avaya?

A I am a senior manager in the Global Procurement Organization.

Q And who do you work for?

A I work for a gentleman, Bill Onibudo.

Q For the transcriber's benefit --

A O-n-i-b-u-d-o.

Q Okay. Stan, I would like to show you what I have marked for identification purposes as E-1 and E-2, Employer's Exhibits 1 and 2. And I'll hand this to the Hearing Officer so she can follow along.

(Employer Exhibits 1 and 2 marked for identification.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Thank you.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: All right. What is the document that has been marked as Employer's Exhibit 1, do you see that, Stan?

A Yes, I do.

Q Do you recognize that document?

A I do.

Q Why don't you tell us what that is?

A It is an organization chart, essentially senior manager and above, for the Connectivity Solutions business.

Q Okay. Let's -- let's -- now just so it is clear on the record, why don't you look at the one we have marked as Employer's Exhibit No. 2?

A It is an organization chart for the Global Purchasing Organization for Avaya.

Q Okay. And before you refers to Bill Onibudo and then I see you. Could you just tell us how these two org charts fit together because I am not sure if I see -- yes, I do. Yes, I do see Bill.

A The E-1 chart shows Bill Onibudo reporting to Connie Schmidt. However, she has since retired.

Q Okay.

A And so Bill today reports directly to Steve Clark.

Q Okay.

A And Steve is the group vice president.

Q And so he heads up Connectivity Solutions?

A He heads up Connectivity Solutions.

Q And it is not shown on here but do you know who Steve reports to?

A Yes, I do.

Q Who is that?

A He reports directly to Don Peterson.

Q Okay.

A Who is CEO of Avaya.

Q Okay. Now I am going to keep them on hold. I may refer back to them. Let's take you for a little of your history with Avaya. How long have you been with Avaya or -- and when I refer to Avaya, I am talking about Avaya and all its many predecessors?

A A little over 40 years. I completed 40 years of service last fall.

Q And how much of your 40 years have your spent in the purchasing organization?

A Almost 24 years of that time in purchasing.

Q Okay. Forty years at the Company probably puts you in a pretty good position to tell us what it does. Why don't you for the purposes of the record just give us a little explanation of what Avaya does?

A Okay. First of all, Avaya is a relatively new company, about a year-and-a-half old. It was created as a result of the spin off from Lucent.

Avaya consists of two main businesses: the BCS business, which is the Business Communications Services business, and Connectivity Solutions, which encompasses the Omaha facility.

Within the Omaha facility -- within the Omaha facility, we have three business units. They are referred to as ExchangeMAX, Systimax and ICS which is Integrated Cabinet Solutions.

Q And when you say the first two, Systimax and the other one --

A Systimax and ExchangeMAX.

Q ExchangeMAX. What are they?

A ExchangeMAX is primarily a product line that goes into a central office where phone -- calls -- lines go into the feedback out to other subscribers and Systimax is more the consumer type of product. You might relate to it as the wiring, the inside wiring and the outlets and so on that would go into a hospital or maybe a building like this.

Q For a phone system?

A For a phone system. For more than a phone system, though. For a communication system.

Q That includes that working equipment and whatnot? And those are the products that you guys manufacture -- that Connectivity Solutions manufactures, correct?

A That is correct.

Q And some of that work -- well, how much of that manufacturing is done in Omaha? How much of Connectivity Solutions manufacturing?

A There is actually five manufacturing facilities. Omaha is one. It is the largest. But we also have four facilities offshore. We have one in Ireland, one in China, one in Venezuela and one in Australia. But those are relatively small. The majority of it is manufactured in Omaha.

Q Okay. Let's now focus a little more narrowly on your organization, the -- the GPO. What is GPO's role within Connectivity Solutions?

A GPO is charged with actually securing all of the materials that are required to run that business. So that is materials and services. So that includes the material that is required to actually build product. It includes the capital equipment. It also includes the all of the services that are required from time to time.

Q Could you give some examples of the raw materials that Connectivity Solutions uses to produce its products?

A Sure. Raw materials would include such things as copper, copper rod which is drawn down to make wire, the insulating materials which would be various types of insulating, jacket compounds. And that would be in the electronic wire and cable shops.

On the other side of the business -- in the apparatus side of the business, we would use basic materials such as injection molding compound, aluminum, steel, brass, those types of things would be the raw materials.

Q And how about some examples of capital equipment that GPO would procure on behalf of Connectivity Solutions?

A Really a wide range would apply to that category. It would be anything that the Company would capitalize. It could be molding presses, extruding lines, punch presses.

Q Okay. Are you familiar with a title known within the GPO as purchasing specialist?

A Yes, I am.

Q And just for clarity's sake, because we may hear the term referred to during the hearing today, do we sometimes refer to purchasing specialists informally as buyers?

A Yes, quite often.

Q So to you those terms are synonymous?

A Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. By the way, it is probably a good time to move for the admission of Employer's Exhibits 1 and 2.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: They are received.

(Employer Exhibits 1 and 2 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Stan, could you take a look at this document? Are you familiar with this document?

A Yes, I am.

Q What is it?

(Employer Exhibit 3 marked for identification.)

A It is the generic job description for one of our buyers, for one of our purchasing specialists. It is, again, the generic that covers all of the purchasing specialists in the organization.

Q Okay. Using the exhibit we marked as E-3 as sort of your road map, why don't you explain perhaps in a little greater level of detail exactly what the purchasing specialist does?

A I will be glad to. Purchasing buyer, purchasing specialist is a professional buying assignment. The person in that position responsible for managing the spend that they are assigned in the associated area of responsibility, plus the supply base.

That individual is responsible to negotiate all of the contracts covering that spend, required to evaluate suppliers; would occasionally visit suppliers' sites, would monitor that suppliers' performance, quality, and delivery performance; would also probably do some kind of an analysis when business was awarded; would interface with engineering lab people, other support people, corporate legal, as an example, corporate treasury for credit review and approval.

Q Let's focus on a couple of those items. You talked about interfacing with the vendors. Typically what level personnel from one of our vendors would the purchasing specialists interface with?

A Probably depends on the size of the company. If they were smaller companies, it would certainly be the CEO's, the presidents, the owners. If you get into a larger company, it could be some kind of a sales -- somebody that was responsible for an account, like an account manager.

Q Now I think you alluded to some sort of pricing analysis responsibility that these folks have, is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Why don't you explain how that works?

A On a large purchase, the buyer would be required to secure a quotation which would be made up of a variety of specifications and so on. Once the quotations -- very often it would be competitive quotations. When the quotations were returned, they would do a TCO, which is a total cost of ownership analysis that would place a value on various attributes, price being one, quality, service, what is at risk by doing business with that supplier, etc., and make a source selection decision based on that TCO.

Q Okay. You also I think alluded to their involvement in sort of the technical aspect of the production process. Is that, in fact, the case?

A It is.

Q Can you explain how that works?

A Sure. They deal with specifications with engineers. Oftentimes we would say we are joined at the hip with the engineer to collaborate on a source selection, to also decide what the proper description of an item may be and purchase may be, and then actually taking a look at the specifications and the drawings that would be required that would go out to the supplier and be returned which is what they would base their pricing and quote on.

Q You also alluded to their responsibility for negotiating contracts. I would like to follow up on that on a little. First of all, do they have any level of authority with respect to actually signing contracts on behalf of Avaya?

A Each buyer has a purchase responsibility, a spend responsibility, ranging from I'll say roughly $20 million maybe up to $50 million. And when they actually do a contract, the purchasing specialist has to submit a contract through an approval process. The authority of a purchasing specialist was changed once we became Avaya and it is now $100,000. It was $400,000 prior to that.

Q So what you are saying then is -- just so we have it clear for the record -- currently a purchasing specialist can enter a contract on behalf of Avaya for up to $100,000 with -- of their own approval?

A Of their own approval with no intervention from anybody else.

Q And beyond that, they have to escalate up the management chain?

A Right. Purchasing manager is the next level up. It has $1 million. My level is currently $2 million.

Q Okay. In addition to negotiating contracts, once a contract is in place, do they have any role in the management of the vendor contract?

A The buyer typically conducts a review with the supplier on maybe a quarterly to semi-annual basis and you take a look at all the attributes of the contract and primarily focusing on delivery performance and price.

The buyers are all charged with achieving price reductions and typically a $1-to-$5 million goal is normal for each buyer.

Q Now with respect to the items they are procuring, whether it be raw materials or capital equipment, how much discretion do they have with respect to sourcing, that is where they can go to buy this stuff?

A The buyer has a lot of discretion on the sourcing. Again, as I mentioned, he does collaborate with engineering but the buyer has the ability to seek out and is required to seek out and add sources, maybe in addition to what the engineer specified.

And at the conclusion of the TCO, there would be some kind of a joint review and so on and they would agree that this was an appropriate source.

Q Okay. You also --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Excuse me. What is TCO?

THE WITNESS: Total cost of ownership analysis.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: You alluded to interaction with the Avaya legal staff. Could you further describe that process?

Q So it sounds like John is the Avaya lawyer that supports the your purchasing process?

A Yes. That is correct.

Q And in that respect, the buyers are interacting with him?

A Yes.

Q Okay. You mentioned that these folks -- that is the purchasing specialists -- travel. Is their travel limited to -- is it just domestic or is it domestic and/or international?

A It really depends on the need and the buyer really has to be available to travel on whatever his area of responsibility is. Current economic times have dictated that we don't travel much but in the past we have had buyers in Asia and also in Central America.

Q And why is that they are traveling worldwide? Is it -- well, you tell me. Why is they are traveling worldwide and not just domestically?

A Well, the Global Purchasing Organization, the structure that is on the organization chart --

Q And just so we are clear, you are now referring to what we marked as --

A E-2.

Q -- Employer's Exhibit 2. Okay.

A They also have responsibility for collaborating with those businesses to secure materials. In fact, the individual in Ireland actually reports in to -- not on this chart but in to Bill.

Q Okay. So is it fair to say the purchasing specialists support Connectivity's purchasing worldwide?

A Yes, it is.

Q They are not just supporting Omaha?

A That is correct.

Q Now the purchasing specialists, they have -- the do have offices in Omaha, right?

A Yes, they do.

Q Is it possible for them to do their work from elsewhere, though?

A Certainly. All the buyers, all the purchasing specialists have laptops. They have laptops so that they can take them on the road with them when they travel and also they could work out of the office. They could do a virtual office at home or wherever.

Q And has Connectivity Solutions' purchasing function always been done at Omaha?

A A portion of it has always been done at Omaha but a piece that we call basic materials which were the high valued -- what we would call commodities which are the copper and the plastics, steel, aluminum and so on, at one time they were done on a centralized basis when there were more units than Omaha buying those and they were done in Greensboro, North Carolina. They transferred to Omaha roughly say five years ago.

Q So a portion of the work that the purchasing specialists are now doing was previously done in Greensboro?

A That is correct. That served -- Greensboro served as a headquarters for a variety of organizations, legal, HR, purchasing.

Q Let's focus a little now on the qualifications that your purchasing specialists possess. What are the minimum qualifications necessary for the position?

A You have to have a bachelor's degree. In fact, we encourage all of the buying staff to secure a master's degree.

And so today all of them have bachelor's degrees. We do have about 80 percent of the folks that are either securing a masters or in process someplace.

Q Okay. Any other professional qualifications?

A All of the -- all of the buying staff belong to, are members of a professional organization. That is the NAPM, National Association of Purchasing Management. Three individuals in our group, in fact, hold positions on the NAPM board.

There is a professional certification, CPM, certified purchasing manager, that is bestowed by the NAPM, and we ask that all of our buying staff procure CPM certification.

They are today in various stages of that but, again, I would say probably 75 to 85 percent are either certified or are near certification.

Q Okay. And to help you with these questions, I am going to hand you two documents which are the only copies I have. Stan, I am showing you copies of two of -- two different copies of what we have previously marked and is now in evidence as Employer's Exhibit No. 2 and I notice there is a bunch of color codes there.

Did you put those color codings there?

A I did.

Q Okay. Using those as guides, I am going to now ask you specifically, first on that one, would you just list the employees that are coded as -- well, let's do it this way. What do those codes represent?

A Well, the pink code represents the A-4's which is the title purchasing specialists. And there is actually one supervisor that I have got coded in there, probably incorrectly.

So I don't know if you want to count on there. There's one, two, three, four --

Q Let's focus on -- that more identifies the position. Let's focus on the yellow and purple.

A Okay. So the yellow code is all those individuals that have a bachelor's degree and that is all of what I would call the buying staff, the management staff, except one person.

Q Okay.

A And the purple is the folks that have MBA's or MBA's in process and of the management staff -- again, I didn't calculate a percentage but it is probably 75 to 85 percent.

Q Okay. And so would it be fair to say then -- because I am looking here and I can show it to anyone who wants to look at it -- it looks to me like all the purchasing specialists have a full yellow line. Does that suggest that all purchasing specialists have at least a bachelor's degree?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. It also looks like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine of the -- nine of the fourteen have either MBA's or are working towards an MBA?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. And then looking again at this one that you also marked up, it looks like here -- what does the purple represent?

A Purple represents certification. They are either already certified by the NAPM or a certification is in process and they have passed -- there is a series of modules you have to pass and they have passed at least one or two of those modules.

Q Okay. And --

A So they are on their way to becoming certified.

Q And looking at your -- at your little schematic here, it appears that one, two, three, four, five, six of the purchasing specialists have completed the professional certification, is that accurate?

A That is right.

Q And it looks like an additional one, two, three --

A Four, five --

Q Five --

A -- are in process.

Q -- are in process, is that correct?

A That is correct.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. Should we put these in the record or --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I would like to see it just so I have it.

MR. NOLAN: No problem. It is actually rather useful and if you think they should be in the record, we would be more than happy to offer them.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: What is GPO? I'm sorry?

THE WITNESS: Global Procurement Organization.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you. Can I ask him a question about --

MR. NOLAN: Please do.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. I think we might as well put this in.

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Let's call it Employer's Exhibit 4 and 5 --

MR. NOLAN: Or 3(a) and (b) -- yeah, 4 and 5.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Employer's 4 and 5. I am going to make the one -- the educational one Employer 4 and Employer 5 is going to be the certification one.

(Employer Exhibits 4 and 5 marked for identification.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Now you say -- just for purposes of the record -- the employees -- the actual purchasing specialists are the employees that are --

THE WITNESS: Are pink.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- that have the pink?

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: On Employer's Exhibit 4. Okay. But Mr. Carlos Palacios is also a purchasing specialist, correct?

THE WITNESS: He is not. His title is senior purchasing specialist so I did not -- he is a grade or a level above the other individuals so didn't mark him as a purchasing specialist. It is a separate title.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Is that person -- is the Union contending that that person also should be included in the unit, this Carlos Palacios who is a senior purchasing specialist?

MR. KING: I'm sorry. I --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I'm sorry. It is hard without having the document.

THE WITNESS: I actually have two individuals that are that way: Joe Zaborowski is also a senior purchasing specialist. And he is --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Is he on there?

THE WITNESS: He is. He should be over on the right-hand side.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. I see him. He is called a senior specialist?

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: NPI IPL?

THE WITNESS: That is --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So Mr. Carlos Palacios and Joe Zaborowski --

THE WITNESS: Zaborowski.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- are senior purchasing specialists. Is the Union contending that those people also should be included in the unit?

MR. KING: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So can we stipulate that Joe Zaborowski and Carlos Palacios are appropriately excluded from the unit as -- are they supervisors?

THE WITNESS: No, they are just a level higher than the purchasing specialists.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: And it is because of the type of work they do.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: There is also -- that is one that I thought that might be useful for.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: The A-4's, we believe at least, are the specific individuals that the Union is seeking. All of them are purchasing specialists except for one --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: In pink on E-4 and E-5?

MR. NOLAN: On both, correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right.

THE WITNESS: On both.

MR. NOLAN: All those individuals are purchasing specialists except for one -- Karen Anderson?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

MR. NOLAN: Anderson. She is not a purchasing specialist but she is a supervisor.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: So we are not sure if the Union is seeking her in the --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Well, let's get this cleared up. All right.

THE WITNESS: She is a purchasing supervisor and not a 'buyer.'

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So let's reach a stipulation that Carlos Palacios, Joe Zaborowski are not being sought by the Union and should not be included in any unit found appropriate as they don't share sufficient community of interest with unit employees, is that --

MR. KING: We would stipulate.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: The Union would agree to that stipulation?

MR. KING: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And the Employer would agree to that stipulation? They will be excluded from any unit found appropriate?

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Karen Anderson who is in the middle of the document classified as a specialist, the Union -- what is the Union's position as to her?

MR. KING: No on Karen.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So as to Karen Anderson who is classified as a specialist of systems, she will be excluded from the unit as a --

MR. NOLAN: Well, we view her as a supervisor.

THE WITNESS: She is a supervisor.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Would the Union agree that Ms. Anderson should be excluded from any unit as a supervisor?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. That stipulation is received.

And the Union is also not seeking Sandra Schropp or Gay Davis, is that correct?

MR. KING: They are already -- those are represented positions.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Those are represented -- those are people who are included in the unit. Okay. So just for purposes of the record, I am going to go through and name the individuals who are purchasing specialists who the Union contends should be in the unit and who the Employer contends should not be in the unit.

MR. NOLAN: Great.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Those are Nathan Bills, Michael Edwards, Thelma Eley, Brad Hilton, Crystal Stewart, Greg Jenkins, Travis Hofeldt, Eric Southard, Robert Mantell, Josh Fiedler, Nicole Schnieders and Bethany Hahn, is that correct?

MR. NOLAN: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Is there any objection to the introduction of Employer's Exhibit 4 or Employer's Exhibit 5?

MR. KING: I would just like to see it quickly. I didn't get to --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Sure. Sure.

MR. KING: I don't know if Exhibit 3 is offered yet.

MR. NOLAN: No, and I might as well do that now. Offer Exhibit 3 --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: No.

MR. NOLAN: -- 4 and 5.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 3 received into evidence.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: No objection.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. They are received. You can give them to the court reporter. Thank you.

(Employer Exhibits 4 and 5 received into evidence.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: You can go ahead. Thank you.

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Stan, actually it probably easier again to use the -- we will use Employer's Exhibit 4 -- either one. Could you just go through the employees that we now know for sure that the Union is seeking and explain for us where those individuals came from, that is, how they got into current positions?

A Sure. Let me start with, on the left side, with Nathan Bills. Nathan transferred to GPO from one of the operating business units. He was the supervisor in our electronic wire and cable factory so he lateralled into purchasing.

Michael Edwards, we hired off the street. New hire.

Thelma Eley, the same as Nathan, transferred in from our electronic wire and cable facility where she was a supervisor.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: From Omaha?

THE WITNESS: From Omaha. Both of those --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Thank you.

THE WITNESS: -- are from Omaha.

Brad Hilton was a new hire.

Crystal Stewart was a new hire. Greg Jenkins was a new hire. Travis Hofeldt was a new hire. Eric Southard was a new hire. Robert Mantell was a new hire. Josh Fiedler was a new hire. Nicole Schnieders was a new hire.

Bethany Hahn actually came to us from the IPL, the interconnect product line operating unit where she was the supervisor. She transferred laterally into us.

Q Okay. How long have we had purchasing specialists in the GPO?

A As a function, forever. As a title, for probably -- I think that title was created by AT&T roughly 15 plus years ago. And one time they were called assistant buyers. At one time they were called buyers, so by different names, same function.

Q Okay. And this is a bit redundant but based upon your prior answer with respect to where everyone came from, I take it then that none of the purchasing specialists came into their current positions directly from the bargaining unit that is at issue here, what we call the tiered universe?

A That is correct. None of them did.

Q Have any -- as far as you know, have any purchasing specialists transferred from the purchasing specialist position to a bargaining unit, a tiered position?

A No, not that I recall, ever.

Q Okay. Let's focus on the purchasing specialists' sort of more mundane terms and conditions of employment. What -- what shifts do they work?

A They will work a day shift. Standard office hours at our facility are 7:30 to 4:00 o'clock. They probably actually work something beyond that. I would say they probably work anywhere from 6:30 to 5:00, 5:30, plus maybe some weekends, depending on what is required to get the job done.

Q So it sounds like they are exceeding 40 hours a week?

A Definitely. I would say everyone in the organization is.

Q On a regular basis?

A On a regular basis.

Q And are they paid overtime at a time-and-a-half rate for that?

A No, they are not. They are paid an annual salary and that is their compensation.

Q Does that -- are they -- is their attendance within a given day strictly monitored as to when they show up and when they leave?

A No. They need to be there for interface and so on, for phone calls and so on, but, no, they are not monitored that closely at all. They don't punch a clock or anything like that.

Q Okay. And I take it they are paid on a salary basis?

A They are paid on a salary basis.

Q Okay. What is the salary range currently for the purchasing specialist position, approximately?

A Oh, I would say it probably averages somewhere in the low 50's -- probably ranges from 45 to 60,000.

Q How often does your team, your management team, that is, evaluate the purchasing specialists, evaluate their job performance?

A Everyone is required to have an annual performance with -- and it is really a process. It includes setting objectives. You set them on a joint basis with your direct reports and they are reviewed on a six month -- formally reviewed on a six-month basis.

Q And is that under what Avaya has come to call its PMP or performance management platform?

A Yes, it is.

Q Okay. And depending upon the results of their review, are they eligible for bonuses?

A Yes, they are eligible for -- yes, depending on performance.

Q And that is every six months?

A Every six months.

Q Okay. And is that under what Avaya has come to call its short term incentive plan or STIP?

A Yes, correct.

Q Okay. And are those bonuses guaranteed?

A Absolutely not.

Q Is there in addition to an individual performance component, is there a Company performance component to the bonuses?

A The Company has to perform profitably for them to be able to receive the award.

Q Are the purchasing specialists eligible for raises periodically?

A They are, on an annual basis.

Q Okay. Is that what we have come to call the SMI, or salary merit increase?

A Yes.

Q Is that guaranteed?

A No, it is not. And, again, it is based on performance.

Q If we need to reduce head count within the purchasing specialist ranks due to business necessity, do we do so by seniority?

A No, we do so by performance.

Q And is that under what is known as Avaya's FMP or force management program?

A Yes, FMP, um-hmm.

Q And specifically, how would that work? How would your performance translate into whether you are retained or let go in a reduction?

A At each performance rating session, each individual actually receives a grade, a rating grade and the lowest individuals in that unit would be the ones that would be targeted first.

Q Okay. We have talked about several policies that apply to what we generally call Avaya management employees. Are the purchasing specialists covered by all other Avaya management employee policies?

A Yes, yes, they are.

Q So that would include -- their pension and welfare benefits are all the same -- pension and welfare benefits that you and I would receive say as management employees?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. We have sort of danced around the issue of the tiered employees. Let's just clarify some terminology. What is a tiered employee or what is -- let's start with that. What is a tiered employee?

A Well, a tiered employee probably gets that name because they are pay classifications are Tier -- well, you could be Tier 1 to 5 -- now I think it is probably Tier 2 to Tier 5, so Tier 2, 3, 4 and 5, and different levels of responsibility and assignment and pay.

Q And those are the represented folks?

A Those are all represented.

Q Right?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And on the material management analyst then, I am assuming also that is a tiered title?

A Yes.

Q Okay. What I am going to do, Stan, is -- this is going to be -- what I have done and we can cal this -- what are we up to, 6 now?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes, 6.

(Employer Exhibit 6 marked for identification.)

MR. NOLAN: I just went ahead and made a copy of the contract so it would be easier to refer to -- Exhibit 2 -- this just might be a little easier for record purposes. I am sure there is going to be no objection but I would offer this into evidence.

MR. KING: Sure.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 6 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: All right, Stan. I am showing you what we have offered into evidence as Employer's Exhibit 6, and I will represent to you it is a portion of the Union contract or collective bargaining agreement that is also in evidence. I have just given you this one because it is a little less cumbersome.

If you would please turn to what is marked as page 40, Stan.

A Okay.

Q Okay. This is the contract job description for material management analyst. Are you aware of -- are there any employees in GPO that fall under this classification in the Union contract?

A Not under Tier 4. This is Tier 4.

Q Okay.

A Or 3. So not under Tier 4.

Q So you are saying you have a Tier 5?

A I have a Tier 3 and a Tier 5.

Q Okay.

A Actually, two Tier 3's. One is a secretary.

Q Okay. And just for clarity, looking at the org chart, Employer's Exhibit 2, I see under Sandra Schropp, it looks like a T-V? That is -- she is a Tier 5?

A She is Tier 5.

Q Okay. And that is the job description that is set forth on page 48 -- 46 of the contract that I just showed you?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And let's focus on Ms. Schropp for a moment, please. What does she do?

A She works for, reports to, and is supports Karen Anderson. She really does two things. She does a lot of special projects assigned by Karen. She does some invoice block clearing at the request of buyers. And she does some data entry for us.

Q Okay. Could you compare what she does to what the purchasing specialists do, please?

A What Sandy does is really at the direction of the buyer and it is more than assist type of role. If there is a blocked invoice and a supplier needs to get paid and that is critical, we might have Sandy do that on a short -- on a short notice basis.

If we have a change in a contract and we have to change prices or some kind of terms and it affects multiple codes, we would have Sandy do that, do the update for that.

She really doesn’t do anything similar to any of the buyer, any of the purchasing specialists.

Q All right. Does she have the $100,000 authority that the purchasing specialists have?

A No. Pre --

Q I'm sorry.

A Pre-Avaya Tier 5 had $5000 of spend authority but that was eliminated and Tier 5's do not have any spend authority today.

Q Okay. Is she required to travel to interface with vendors at all?

A No.

Q And other than with the exception of dealing with the blocked invoices, does she interact with vendors on a regular basis?

A No.

Q Does she interact with the corporate legal staff at all?

A No.

Q Does she have discretion -- she obviously doesn't have any spending authority but does she otherwise have discretion in entering into vendor relationships?

A No.

Q As far as you know, is Ms. Schropp a college graduate?

A I don't believe she is. I wouldn't want to take anything away from her if she is but I don't believe she is.

Q Okay. Have there been other employees in Schropp's role in the recent history of the GPO?

A Sure. If we go back, we had an individual recently that retired, Carmen Bicante (phonetic) who was also a Tier 5.

Q I take it Carmen wasn't replaced?

A Carmen was not replaced.

Q Okay. So what happened to the work that Carmen was doing?

A Well, actually it is probably a little bit of a complicated answer but it has been happening for a number of years and what that is, if you go back in history enough, purchasing was a very manual type of process.

And over the years -- and I would say especially over about the last five years -- we have become a very mechanized organization and just to give you a little idea of how the work flows, when a need is created material management organization would create a requisition that they would hand over to the purchasing group and purchasing would then covert that into a purchase order.

At one time, that was all done with a piece of paper so every time there was a requisition there was a piece of paper. We got to the point where we put that on the system so all the pieces of paper now are eliminated and that comes over the system.

The second thing that has happened is we acquired what we call auto source or auto create where the buyer can go into the database, set up a supplier for certain codes, for certain materials and whenever a requisition or a need is identified and passes across from the materials group it automatically generates a purchase order.

Q Okay. Other than -- well, could you describe what level, if any, of data entry type work the purchasing specialists do?

A Well, they would do some price -- some price entry but it would probably be on a -- on a low volume as opposed to the high volume. If there is high volume, we try to either hand that off to Gay or Sandra.

Q And speaking of Gay -- I assume you are referring to Gay Davis?

A Yes.

Q Who also appears on Employer's Exhibit 2?

A Right.

Q It looks like she is a T-3, so she is a Tier 3 employee?

A She is a Tier 3.

Q Okay. What does Gay do for us?

A She does some -- again, some system support, again, mostly at the request of Karen. She also does some MRO or some expense buying that she would do for Crystal Stewart. And so Crystal would ask her to actually do that, do that buy, do that purchasing.

Q Could you explain a little further what that sort of purchasing involves?

A Well, that would be expense items that would typically be low value, non-repetitive, something where you couldn't go out and put a contract in place. It could involve MRO, maintenance and repair, type of items as well.

Q Why don't you give me an example of an item that she would be responsible for buying?

A It could be something that the shop needed that was an expense item. It could be something like packaging material. It could be hand tools. Again, I would say typically low value.

Q Um-hmm. And as far as you know, is Ms. Davis a college graduate?

A I do not believe she is.

Q Okay. It looks like there is one additional tiered employee on your org chart and that appears to be a Cristal Harris. Do you see her?

A Yes.

Q And what does Ms. Harris do?

A She is actually a secretary to really all of the buyers.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: For purposes of the record, the T-V behind Sandra Schropp's name would be Tier V -- Roman Numeral, correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I am just now, you know, getting this, so -- and then Gay Davis, T-III --

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And then up here, Cristal Harris Tier 3?

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So we can tell what tier they are by the demarcation after their names?

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Other than the purchasing specialists and it sounded like maybe occasionally for lower dollar items, Ms. Davis or Ms. Schropp, are there any other employees that do any sort of buying for Connectivity Solutions here in Omaha?

A There are -- there are a couple of folks in the maintenance organization that buy -- again, MRO, maintenance repair, MRO stands for maintenance repair organization, so maintenance and repair type of items.

That function was at one time resided in the GPO organization and after a lot of discussion we decided that we didn't really add a lot of value to that because it was low value. It was short term.

There wasn't a lot of discretion available on the source. The item was pre-identified, pre-stipulated, and we agreed to let the maintenance organization do that themselves rather than add another layer to it and run it through the purchasing group. Those people are currently buying today.

Q And just so we are clear, the people that are doing the buying then, that sort of buying are also represented tiered employees?

A Yes, they are.

Q Okay. Could you compare the sort of buying they are doing with the buying that the purchasing specialists do?

A No, the purchasing specialists is really a unique position and it is a unique position because when you look at a business like ours you have what I will call cogs and non-cogs. And cogs is items -- are items that are cost of goods sold so they are part of the product. That is what all the buyers really concentrate on.

The non-cogs is the expense, the associated type of materials and so on that are required to run a business and probably 90 percent of our spend is in the cogs area and that is where we concentrate.

Q And so I take it these individuals that do purchasing in the maintenance organization are purchasing items that you are referring to as non-cogs?

A Non-cogs, expense. Again, I'll -- maintenance -- maintenance and repair type things.

Q All right. And the sort of items that they are purchasing, do they typically require individual contracts?

A No. I would say there are no contracts written beyond the purchase order that goes out for any of those items.

Q And is there typically a negotiation with the supplier over a price?

A You know, I really can't tell you because -- because I don't see what those people do on a day-to-day basis.

Q Okay.

A I would say they don't have much discretion on where they go but they could haggle on pricing and I don't know that.

Q Okay. And, likewise, the individuals that are doing purchasing in the maintenance organization or for the maintenance organization -- they don't have any spending authority, do they?

A They do not. In fact, we run all of the completed purchases back through our system so that the purchase order actually goes out with -- actually goes out with Jim Himes, my counterpart, senior manager's name on the purchase order.

Q Just so I understand you, the items that those individuals are purchasing are not purchased until your organization approves the purchase?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. The three represented individuals within GPO, Ms. Schropp, Ms. Davis and Ms. Harris, as far as you know, are their terms and conditions of employment, things like wages, benefits, that is all set forth in the Union contract?

A Yes.

Q So I take it then, do they receive -- well, do they get annual wage increases?

A I think --

Q If you don't want to speak --

A -- they get -- I think when they -- I don't know.

Q Yes. If you don't want to speak to the contract, that is fine. We have the contract. It says what it says.

What about with respect -- and again if you are not comfortable talking about the contract, that is fine, but what about with respect to any bonuses they may receive? Do you know anything about that?

A Yeah, there is a small bonus that they receive and that is pretty much of an automatic type thing.

Q And if for some reason there happens to be a surplus among the tiered universe and we have to -- we have to exit some of those people from the business, how do we go about doing that?

A Seniority, low seniority out.

Q So as far as you know, performance isn't considered in terms of who is exited?

A It is not.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. I just have one little bit of follow up for the witness and it will involve a document which unfortunately I have one other copy of. Give us a second to pull together some copies. I didn't anticipate we would be using it.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. We can go off the record a second.

MR. NOLAN: I'd like to have marked for identification Employer's Exhibit No. 7.

(Employer Exhibit 7 marked for identification.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. I am showing you what is marked for identification purposes as Employer's Exhibit No. 7. Would you just take a look at that please? Are you familiar with that document?

A Yes, I am.

Q Will you please explain what it is?

A This is a job description for purchasing specialist. It was generated by AT&T. It essentially covers the same description that we are using today.

Q You said it was generated by AT&T. How do you know?

A It has the AT&T logo on it.

Q Okay. That probably tells us something.

And do you know offhand when AT&T divested Lucent?

A Oh, like January 1, 1984 or '5. One of those two. I can't remember which one it was.

Q Okay. Just so we are clear, I am not talking about the divestiture of the Bell System. I am talking about when AT&T spun Lucent off.

A Oh --

Q And, again, you don't have -- you know, you don't have to guess. We have ample opportunity to get --

A About seven years back.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. I would just like to offer E-3.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: E-7?

MR. NOLAN: E-7, please.

MR. KING: Could I ask a some foundational questions?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Sure.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

MR. KING: Do you have any knowledge whether this -- this piece of paper -- this job posting was used at the Omaha facility?

THE WITNESS: I am sure it was. It is a job posting that we use or very, very similar to that, every time we an opening.

MR. KING: Is there any way to tell by reading the exhibit --

THE WITNESS: No.

MR. KING: -- that this is used in Omaha?

THE WITNESS: I am sure it was. It is just a matter of how far back we would go. It just changed format over the years.

MR. KING: I don't think the proper foundation -- I would take it for its value but I don't know that I would concede it has been used in Omaha.

MR. NOLAN: Well, I am not offering to say anything about Omaha. I am offering it that it is what it is. It is a job posting for the purchasing specialist and it has an AT&T logo on it and whatever inference can be drawn from that can be drawn from that.

But I could try to clarify that a little bit and it did come from the files of -- I can further, you know, say for the record that --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Well, we can ask the witness. Do you know --

THE WITNESS: I can try and clarify that a little bit and that is that at one time AT&T decided to standardize all of the job descriptions within purchasing that were used throughout the globe and that probably covered 40, 50, 60 facilities, something like that. And so they issued a standard job description.

It was probably when we went away from using that term like assistant buyer or buyer to purchasing specialist and this was the only job description that existed during that time period.

So if we had to use something for advertisement, I am sure we used this.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And that would have been how long ago?

THE WITNESS: Probably -- if you look at the two job descriptions, they are almost identical. So I would say we have been using this same job description for the past 15 plus years.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And E-3 is an Avaya job description?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Was that also -- was that Lucent's or Avaya's?

THE WITNESS: This one is Avaya's but it --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right.

THE WITNESS: -- probably reads almost word for word for Lucent's.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Any objection?

MR. KING: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. It is received. E-7 is received.

(Employer Exhibit 7 received into evidence.)

MR. NOLAN: I have no further questions.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Do you have any cross-examination?

MR. KING: Yes.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. KING: Did you testify that the purchasing specialists had previously been known as buying assistants, is that correct?

A Assistant buyers.

Q Assistant buyers?

A Correct.

Q Okay. And was that at anytime a bargaining unit position?

A No. That has always been salary Grade 4 or 5.

Q Okay. What was the -- I need the exhibits. Referring to Exhibit E-2, Sandra Schropp?

A Um-hmm.

Q What is her title in the organization?

A Well, if you look on the organization chart, we call her a data steward because that is her primary interface is with data and with the SAP system.

However, I probably have to go back to the agreement because I think this covers everybody in the organization, material management and purchasing that would call her a senior material management analyst.

Q Okay. This organization chart -- again on E-2 -- it is cut off a little but it was generated sometime in 2002 according to the log attached to it?

A Um-hmm. Okay.

Q And on this, it appears that yourself and Jim Himes are peers?

A Yes.

Q And it appears that -- on the right side where you see reporting lines for yourself --

A Yes.

Q -- down through approximately --

A That is correct.

Q -- seven purchasing specialists, is that -- since it is 2002, has that changed recently, is that the way it has been for some period of time?

A It has essentially been this way -- at one time there was only one senior manager and I was promoted into a senior manager roughly say two years ago and prior to that there was only one senior manager and other than that the organization structure has essentially been the same.

Q And what position would you have been in previous to the senior manager position?

A Purchasing manager.

Q Which title -- which name on the chart?

A Probably had all of them at one time but --

Q Okay.

A -- it would be the Karen Dappen, Jim Krambeck, David Slaughter, Jeff Hunt.

Q Okay. You testified that the purchasing specialists have gone to $100,000 since -

A Since Avaya.

Q -- Avaya? And prior to Avaya it was $400,000?

A $400,000, yes.

Q Now you testified that they travel abroad?

A Um-hmm.

Q How does that work? If they are in Europe -- I would assume you don't send them over for a minimum level purchase?

A No, it has to be -- it has to be a major issue or supplier in order to travel to Europe.

Q Do they write contracts that would exceed $100,000 or do they --

A Oh, definitely.

Q -- have to turn it over to someone?

A No. They write contracts for whatever the value is and then they go through an approval process.

Q Okay. So they don't -- and there is very defined authority for purchasing specialists?

A That is correct.

MR. KING: Do you need copies? I have four.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Go ahead. If I need a copy, I will ask the court reporter for her copy.

MR. KING: I'll mark this as Union 1.

(Petitioner Exhibit 1 marked for identification.)

Q BY MR. KING: Can you tell us what this is?

A It is a posting for an opening for a Tier 5.

Q And the contact name is your name? You, in essence, generated this posting?

A That is correct.

Q And who is the employee selected?

A Sandra Schropp?

Q Okay. And it appears this was done in November of '99?

A Yes.

Q Okay. In the -- it is kind of cut off. In the lower, left corner, there is some writing. Can you tell me -- can you read it on yours? Mine says, 'Buying Assistant,' and it is cut off and the --

A It is cut off but I can make that out.

Q I think this is the worst copy. Okay. Is that the same as the buying assistant -- you said that buying assistants were purchasing specialists in the past. What is that term? Why is that there?

A I really don't know. That is not something that I would guess that we used. Again, for clarification, the term that I used for the purchasing specialists was assistant buyer.

Q Assistant buyer.

A Okay. But I could see where somebody could call that a buying assistant and their role would be to help the buyer.

Q Okay. And this is a Tier 5 position?

A Yes.

Q Under the contract? And it appears the qualifications for this include an associate's degree and I'll paraphrase without reading everything?

A Um-hmm. Okay.

Q And this was a successful bid?

A Yes, she occupies the job today.

MR. KING: I offer Union 1.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Do you have any objection to Union 1?

MR. NOLAN: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Petitioner Exhibit 1 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. KING: You testified that the -- the individuals in purchasing specialists 3 that had been transferred in were Schnieders, Bills and Hahn, and all the other individuals were hired of the street, is that -- you testified were --

A New hires is the term.

Q Thank you. New hires was the term that you used?

A It was actually Nathan Bills, though, Thelma Eley, and Bethany Hahn are the three that transferred in. The balance of those people are new hires.

Q Okay. Are they all in close range as far as employee start dates? I am not asking for exact dates but can you --

A I would say the majority of them are within the last three years.

Q Within the last three years?

A Um-hmm.

Q Okay. Prior to that time, was there a slew of retirements or --

A There was. There were retirements and a few people transferred to different organizations for whatever reason.

Q Is it your testimony that you have had approximately this number of hires then for --

A I would probably have to go back and actually count but I think that is similar.

Q Approximately what percentage of the time would a typical buyer spend traveling?

A A small percent like --

Q A few nights a year in hotels?

A I would -- yeah, a few nights a year. I would say a buyer probably six to eight, ten times, something like that, trips.

Q Your testimony on the -- you termed it as on the shop side --

A Yes.

Q -- which I think that is not under this organizational chart and just -- just help me out on what you meant by shop side?

A No, it is not -- it is not on 2 but if you would go to 1, we could probably find it on 1.

If you go over on the left-hand side, you see Ray Swartz and under him is Richard Dell'Asen.

Q Okay.

A So these people worked in the Richard Dell'Asen organization -- backup. Two of them did and one of them worked under probably Chuck Meyers' organization.

Q And your testimony was that tier employees do not do any purchasing other than -- help me out on that. What was your testimony about that?

A Tiered employees do some purchasing, small value, typically at the direction of a buyer, don't write contracts.

Q They don't write contracts?

A No.

MR. KING: Nothing further.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I have a couple of questions. Of did you have redirect before I have my --

MR. NOLAN: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- couple of questions?

EXAMINATION

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I am looking at Employer's Exhibit 1 and I just want to make sure I understand these organizational structure charts. I never was very good at these.

Avaya -- what you testified before is that Avaya has basically two subordinate organizations?

THE WITNESS: Two main business groups.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. One being?

THE WITNESS: One being CS.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Which is?

THE WITNESS: Connectivity Solutions.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And Connectivity Solutions manufactures certain types of communications?

THE WITNESS: Products.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Products?

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And these are the -- and Employer's Exhibit 1 shows the different departments under Connectivity Solutions?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And over here under Connie Schmidt, you say she is no longer there?

THE WITNESS: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So now Bill has moved into her position?

THE WITNESS: No. He has not but a decision was made for him to report directly to Steve Clark.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And then you are under Bill?

THE WITNESS: I am under Bill.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So your GPO department would then be Employer's Exhibit 2?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And under that, all of the purchasing specialists are under the GPO, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Now you testified that -- something about several buyer positions moving to Omaha from Greensboro?

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Tell me about that. I didn't quite get that.

THE WITNESS: At one time we had a really quite large Greensboro purchasing operation.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: And one of the functions that they did is what we call basic materials and basic materials was for primarily commodity type of items and so it was copper, steel, aluminum, brass, plastics.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: They did most of that purchasing?

THE WITNESS: They did almost all of that. They wrote the contracts and so on.

As we began to downsize, if you will, as a business, we decided to take that purchasing responsibility and bring it into Omaha.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And that was how many years ago?

THE WITNESS: I think five years ago.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And at that time, they were still -- those buyers were still called purchasing specialists?

THE WITNESS: Yes, they were.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So about five years ago, you probably took on several more or a lot more purchasing specialists than you had had before?

THE WITNESS: We did, that is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. But since five years ago, have you maintained approximately the same number of purchasing specialists in your department as you have now?

THE WITNESS: I think that is true.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now do these people have cubicles or is it an open room or how is the facility -- the department set up?

THE WITNESS: All of the purchasing specialists and the senior purchasing specialist are in private offices, locked offices. We have two that share an office.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: So two people share an office.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And how about your unit people in your GPO office? How are they --

THE WITNESS: They are in a cubicle environment which does not have a door and does not lock.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And in your department, the GPO department, you testified you have just three unit positions in your department?

THE WITNESS: That is right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And has that been consistent? You say you lost one?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Within the last few years?

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: But other than that, it has been fairly consistent?

THE WITNESS: Well, it depends on how far back you want to go.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Probably the last ten years would be good enough for me.

THE WITNESS: I would say if I go back ten years, I have probably had I'll say maybe 15.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Oh, my gosh.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: So nine of those individuals were what we term -- they were Tier 5's and they were expediters was their job classification. And we made a decision to transfer the expediting responsibility to the material management group. There were material planners. They had more daily contact with the suppliers and the consensus was they would simply do a better job of expediting.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So they moved into a different department?

THE WITNESS: So that function was transferred out.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. We also had -- probably at its height we probably had six people that were the Tier 5 -- in fact -- I'm sorry -- not Tier 5, Tier 3 --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Like Gay Davis?

THE WITNESS: Like Gay except what they were mostly doing was handling the flood of paperwork that would come in because we were a manual system.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Because of paperwork and because --

THE WITNESS: Right. And as we became mechanized, I mean, it would take a person all day, as an example, just to fold purchase orders and put them in envelopes.

Purchasing doesn't do that today. That function is gone. We do it electronically and we send out the purchase orders EDI. But that is what has happened to that universe.

Two of those people transferred over to the maintenance organization so we allowed them to do their own purchasing.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And when you talk about people who do purchasing in the maintenance organization, that is a different department that is still associated with Connectivity Solutions?

THE WITNESS: Right the across aisle.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Right?

THE WITNESS: Right across the aisle.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: When you say right across the aisle, they are right in the same physical space as you guys are?

THE WITNESS: From here to the door, about that close in proximity.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And their managers are --

THE WITNESS: Well, let's see --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- Chuck Meyers and Richard --

THE WITNESS: No. These people actually report up through -- well, I'll backup. I think it is Chuck Meyers today. I think -- I think Chuck has the maintenance organization today.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And so his offices or his area is just right with yours as well? I mean, he is right in the same area as you?

THE WITNESS: Chuck Meyers?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes?

THE WITNESS: Because of his level -- Chuck is a director.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Oh, okay.

THE WITNESS: And so all of the directors are on a completely different floor. The purchasing operation is on first floor and the directors are on third floor. Just to carry that on, engineering, as an example, is primarily on our second floor.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Well, let me ask you about that then.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: These people who are in the same area who purchase -- and you have explained the differences between their purchasing and what you believe that your purchasing specialists are -- but they are in the same area as you, as your purchasing specialists, correct?

THE WITNESS: (Nods affirmatively.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Do they have cubes or offices or how do they --

THE WITNESS: They have cubes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And are they supervised by people in the GPO?

THE WITNESS: No. They are supervised by somebody in the maintenance organization.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Does that person have an office in the area where they are or does --

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Okay. Now I take that the -- your buyers you say work the day shift? The tiered employees also work the day shift?

THE WITNESS: Same shift.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Are they required -- do they have a clock-in, clock-out, sign-in, sign-out, any sort of system to account for their time?

THE WITNESS: They do not clock in or clock out.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: They do have a supervisor that would monitor that individual's attendance though.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And that would be --

THE WITNESS: In this case, it is --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Karen Anderson?

THE WITNESS: Right. Karen Anderson.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And they are hourly employees paid overtime? Or are they paid for --

THE WITNESS: I don't think they are hourly. I think they are actually -- we call them salary graded. I think they are probably paid a monthly wage is the way their wage is stated.

And they would be paid overtime if they were asked to work overtime.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Okay. And how many of these purchase -- I don't want to call them purchasing specialists because -- what are they -- how many material -- senior material analysts are there in the maintenance group who have some buying functions?

THE WITNESS: I believe there are two.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Two? Do you know their names by any chance?

THE WITNESS: One is Shannon Boomer (phonetic) and I don't know the other one.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Thank you.

And they -- the Tier 5 people have an educational requirement do you say generally in their posting?

THE WITNESS: It is seniority.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: They come from within?

THE WITNESS: They come from within.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Is there any educational requirement?

THE WITNESS: There is not an educational requirement per se. In other words, it isn't required that they would have a bachelor's degree but it would -- they would have to have some training in that corridor before they could move to a 5.

So if they were moving from a 4 to a 5, they would have to have some type of training, some type of length of experience.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Did that raise anything for anyone?

MR. NOLAN: No. There is one thing that I think we can stipulate to that Stan misstated and that is that the tiered folks are paid weekly. It is a -- they are weekly salaried, is that --

MS. AESOPH-MANGIARUCA: That is correct.

MR. NOLAN: Yes, so we could --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: We all agree to that.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Is that set forth in the contract somewhere, how they are paid and what their weekly salary is?

MS. AESOPH-MANGIARUCA: Under Article 10.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Article 10, okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And the contract would set that forth?

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Under Article 10. Thank you.

All right. Go ahead.

MR. KING: All right.

FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. KING: You testified when questioned about the work moving from Greensboro to Omaha was approximately five years ago?

A Um-hmm.

Q And prior to that, I had asked you if there was any change in the structure and the number of employees and you stated it has been roughly the same for 15 years. Did you --

A Well, excepting -- excepting a move like that. We have done -- the GPO organization has probably ranged from 25 to 35 people as functions have transferred in and out.

As an example, we used to have the transportation function within GPO and we transferred the transportation function out to our logistics organization so that would have been a reduction.

We transferred functions in like the centralized buying function that was done.

Q Did anyone physically transfer from Greensboro to Omaha who was performing a purchasing specialist job?

A Not on the basic materials function. There was -- we transferred another function which was -- it was like a field support purchasing job where when you did an installation -- on-site installation, the installers would need certain products and so on and we moved that function to Omaha. We transferred the buyer to Omaha.

Q I mean the rest of the positions that were identified. We did it by name but on the positions identified --

A That was a purchasing specialist.

Q -- would any of those have transferred from Greensboro?

MR. NOLAN: Just so we are clear, you mean the actual people listed on E-2?

MR. KING: The people or by their job title maybe.

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

MR. KING: For example --

THE WITNESS: No.

Q BY MR. KING: -- CM/OEM?

A No. No.

Q Without stating what that means?

A No.

Q So were some of these then new functions at -- new to Omaha functions when the authority transferred from Greensboro? What does that mean?

A That means we had to populate that job to be able to perform that function.

Q And which jobs were those?

A Those were essentially the jobs under the Jim Himes' organization so it was the jobs that were associated with the electronic wiring, cable, the plastics, the copper. We also picked up a couple of jobs under my site of responsibility which were plastics and brass so there are a couple of people that have those responsibilities in their titles.

Q So maybe five of these 14 were created -- were -- maybe created is the wrong term but as far as from an Omaha perspective, new at that time?

A I would say three to five.

Q And because there is perhaps a question as to a bar relating to the -- the date of the contract is in '98, approximately four years ago. Can you be any more specific on when that was done as far as moving from Greensboro to Omaha?

A I really can't without looking back. I -- I would say it was prior to that date, though, just trying to think of some of the management people that were in place.

Q I understand.

A Prior to four years ago.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Prior to the contract?

THE WITNESS: Prior to the contract.

MR. KING: Can I still offer an exhibit?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Sure.

MR. KING: Did I offer the other document?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: We will have to ask the court reporter. Did he offer Union 1?

COURT REPORTER: I don't have it marked as received.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. If you haven't, would you offer that?

MR. KING: I offer Union 1.

MR. NOLAN: No objection.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

MR. KING: Have you had an opportunity to read that?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

(Petitioner Exhibit 2 marked for identification.)

Q BY MR. KING: Can you tell us what this is?

A It is a job requisition posting for a buyer.

Q Is this what is used to staff the position?

A This is what would have been advertised.

Q And this is -- this is different from the job description that was offered as E-3?

A Well, I would say essentially it is not different. What it is is as we have changed processes by which we have advertised, we have been constrained on the number of lines and letters and words we can use and it is essentially the same job description. So this is an A-4 job description.

Q Okay. And then dealing with the last sentence, BA/BS PURCH SCI/BS ADM/MBA desired?

A Um-hmm.

Q These are -- this is saying college degree desired, correct?

A Well, we would say that a bachelor's degree is required and we prefer to have a master's. And if you don't have the master's when you come to the job, we encourage you strongly to go get a master's.

Q This states that it is required?

A No, I don't think it says that.

MR. NOLAN: I just --

A It doesn't say one way or the other.

MR. NOLAN: I object to the line of questioning. The document says what it says.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: The document does say what it says.

Q BY MR. KING: The 15 purchasing specialists, do you know, did all of them have degrees prior to being hired or did some of them earn them after?

A All of them had bachelor's degrees. Let me just verify that real quick. All had bachelor's degrees when they came into purchasing.

MR. KING: Nothing further.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: To engage in overkill, do all of the employees have a break room that they can use or --

THE WITNESS: There is a cafeteria. There is a Company cafeteria.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And that is available to --

THE WITNESS: Everybody.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- production, maintenance, clerical --

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- managerial? Everybody?

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And does your office have its own set of washrooms or is there --

THE WITNESS: No, there is a washroom that is close to our area but anybody in that area uses that washroom.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Okay. That is all I have. Did that raise anything for anybody?

MR. KING: I need to offer Union 2.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Any objection?

MR. NOLAN: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Petitioner Exhibit 2 received into evidence.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Thank you, Mr. Mason.

(Witness excused.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Do you have another witness?

MR. NOLAN: Yes. It might not be -- could we go off a second?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Sure. Off the record.

(Off the record.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Back on the record.

Mr. Nolan, do you have another witness?

MR. NOLAN: Okay. The Company calls Ms. Gretchen Riemersma.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Raise your right hand, please.

Whereupon,

GRETCHEN RIEMERSMA,

having first been duly sworn, was called as a witness and examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, who do you currently work for?

A Avaya Inc.

COURT REPORTER: Spelling?

MR. NOLAN: Oh, okay. R-i-e-m-e-r-s-m-a. All right?

COURT REPORTER: Gretchen?

THE WITNESS: G-r-e-t-c-h-e-n.

COURT REPORTER: Okay. And the last name again?

THE WITNESS: Riemersma, R-i-e-m-e-r-s-m-a.

COURT REPORTER: Thank you.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. Avaya Inc. And what is your position with Avaya?

A I am senior manager for Customer Care Center.

Q And how long have you held that position?

A Since December of 2001.

Q And prior to assuming your current position as senior manager of the Customer Care Center, what position did you hold with Avaya?

A I was manager of the product realization area and SAP deployment.

Q Okay. let's start up here with an organizational chart.

MR. NOLAN: Actually we might want to go off -- did we find --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Off the record.

(Off the record.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Back on the record.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. I am showing you, Gretchen, what has been marked for identification purposes as Employer's Exhibit 8. Do you recognize that document?

(Employer Exhibit 8 marked for identification.)

A Yes.

Q What is this document?

A This is my organization chart.

Q Okay. I am also going to show you what was previously marked as Employer's Exhibit E-1 and admitted into evidence which is the overall Connectivity org chart. Could you just explain to us where you fit in -- well, specifically where your organization as reflected by Employer's Exhibit 8 fits in on Employer's Exhibit No. 1?

A I am -- in the Exhibit No. 1, I am shown reporting into Connie Schmidt. Connie retired at the end of January so I currently report in to Larry Bailey who is also on the same chart.

Q And I take it then with Connie not there, Larry is reports directly now to Steve Clark?

A Larry reports into Ray Swartz.

Q Okay. So is it fair to say that indirectly you report to Ray Swartz?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Do you have an understanding as to whether that relationship is temporary or do you think that is going to continue for --

A That relation --

Q -- the indefinite future?

A That relationship I know is in place as far as performance management. I don't know beyond the scope of that if it is in place or not.

Q Okay. So -- I don't want you to speculate but is it possible that, for instance, Avaya could replace someone in Connie Schmidt's former role?

A Yes, that would be possible.

MR. NOLAN: I would like to offer E-8 into evidence, please?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 8 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, could you please explain for us what the Customer Care Center does within Avaya?

A The Customer Care Center has a number of responsibilities. The primary function is that of order management, dealing with the customers and entering their orders and the activities surrounding that.

We also provide asset management expertise and then the resource center, which is that group on the right-hand side there, provides second-level technical support for customers.

Q Okay. Looking at the organization chart, could you explain for us in a little more detail how the organization is organized? That is, is it a functional organizational breakdown or how does that work?

A It is kind of a matrix approach. We have the persons responsible directly for customers that deal with the customers on a day-to-day basis are organized by the customers that they support.

Under Cassandra Smith, on the left-hand side, she has Ernie who reports to her, and those customers support what we call the distribution channel under Ann Blaya-Arena and Carolyne there. We have the customers that support our OE -- or the CSR's that support the SPN customers, the OEM's, and that kind of activity.

Q I'm sorry to interrupt you, Gretchen, but just because we will probably ask you anyway, try and refrain from acronyms because for record purposes it would be better if we spelled things out. I happen to know SPN is service provider network but if you could maybe spell out what the acronyms stand for and what they mean as you are giving us the description, that would be very useful.

A Okay. The distribution partners are -- when I talked about distribution -- are those customers that buy product from us, stock it and then resell it, through that channel.

The OEM and group under Carolyne, those are people that buy our product and market it for us. The SPN's are the -- or RHC's sometimes is what they are called, are the old Bell companies like Quest, Bell South, and those.

Q Okay. I interrupted you and I'm sorry. Continue describing the organization universe.

A Okay. Continuing under Ann Blaya-Arena, you see Alyssa Wernlund. She supports the international people. Other than Leo, all of those people are in country with the customers that they support.

Asset management is the next group there. They do the financial end once the customer is invoiced or handling disputes.

And then like I said, the resource center handles the technical issues.

Q Okay. And just for clarity, let's take, of example, there is an employee here, Kerri Starr who is under Ernie's organization. Do you see Kerri?

A Yes, she supports the customer Anixter.

Q Okay. And that is my question. So Anixter refers to the specific customer that she is dedicated to?

A Yes.

Q All right. And likewise, looking under Carolyne's world, I see Phil Alexander has Lucent under his name. Does that mean he is dedicated to Lucent?

A Yes.

Q And just to clarify, Anixter would be what you call a distributor that buys Avaya product and then sells it to other people?

A Yes.

Q And Lucent would be a company that actually buys our product and uses it?

A Yes.

Q And that would be more the service provider equipment?

A An OEM.

Q OEM, what does that stand for?

A Original equipment manufacturer.

Q Okay. Now I notice under Alyssa is it Wernlund?

A Wernlund.

Q Wernlund, I apologize. It indicates the Cala Region. What does that mean?

A That is the -- supports the customers that are either in the South American region or Canada.

Q Okay. And I see under there, there are individual countries listed under some of the people's names. Does that, I then take it, represent the specific countries that they are -- they provide dedicated support to?

A Yes.

Q Being clear, it really refers to customers in those countries?

A They support customers in those countries and they are also in the countries with the exception of Leo.

Q Oh, okay. So the people under Alyssa's -- in Alyssa's world -- are actually located in the countries indicated?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And I think you touched on it but if you could give a little further description of what the asset management folks do, what that organization does?

A Asset management supports the financial end of the order realization process. They are responsible for processing the cash application of the money when it comes back from the customer. They are responsible for setting the credit limits and that kind of thing with the customer.

They set up the customer master that defines the profile as to how that customer is serviced, what kind of transportation terms and that kind of thing. They also handle any disputes from the customer. If there is a shortage, an overage in the shipment, that group is responsible for managing that relationship.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. I think this might not be a bad time to kind of set forth for the record which titles within the Customer Care Center the Union claims share a community of interest with the unit employees.

For what it is worth, our assumption has been that it is the employees listed under Ernest -- is that -- will you say that last name?

THE WITNESS: Boamah?

MR. NOLAN: Yeah, under him -- as well as the employees under Carolyne. So that is what we have been kind of assuming. Maybe C.J. --

MR. KING: Those 20, I believe -- those 20 positions are the ones that are in question.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. So the parties would be willing to stipulate that the customer service specialists are reflected on Employer's Exhibit 8, the ones in dispute, starting with Jennifer Bergevin and down to Gwendolyn Young, starting with Tina Williams down to Linda Breakfield, starting with Phil Alexander down to Stacy Freeman, starting with Debbie Hays and down to Jeff Paulson, is that correct?

MR. NOLAN: Yes, that is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And there is no -- the Union is not contending that Ernest Boamah or Carolyne Devereaux-Cordell should be included in any unit found appropriate, is that correct?

MR. KING: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. I'll accept that stipulation.

And the Union also is not seeking inclusion of any of the employees under Alyssa Wernlund or the asset management group or the resource center group, is that correct?

MR. KING: I'll need to --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. KING: We are not going under Alyssa Wernlund.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Those people --

MR. KING: When we get back to asset management, Cory is going to talk to someone outside and get back to me five minutes but we can just continue on.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. I mean, will that make a difference as to the questions that you had thought you were going to have to ask Gretchen?

MR. NOLAN: Well, I mean, depending on that I may have to ask her more later but --

MR. KING: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: There is no reason to hold up for that.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Go forward.

I would propose then that the parties stipulate that the individuals listed under Alyssa Wernlund will be excluded from any unit found appropriate, that they do not share sufficient community of interest? Is that stipulation fine? Alyssa Wernlund?

MR. NOLAN: Correct.

MR. KING: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Thank you. I'll receive that stipulation.

How about the resource center people? Were they checking on those as well?

MR. KING: I -- I don't believe they are the same job title. I have been told they don't have the same job title. They have different titles.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right. The resource center people also, the parties have reached a stipulation that the three individuals named under the resource center, Peggy Seiter, Jace Schuppan and Diane Nicholson should be excluded from any unit found appropriate as they do not share a sufficient community of interest, is that stipulation acceptable to the parties?

MR. NOLAN: Agree.

MR. KING: Agree.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Thank you.

MR. NOLAN: So asset management is the only that is open right now.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Thank you very much. Go forward.

MR. NOLAN: I would have marked for identification Employer's Exhibit No. 9.

(Employer Exhibit 9 marked for identification.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. Gretchen, would you take a look at what we have marked for identification as Employer's Exhibit No. 9?

A Yes.

Q Are you familiar with this document?

A Yes.

Q Could you please tell us what this document is?

A This document is the generic job description for the customer service representative that we would use for our employees.

Q Okay. And when we refer to customer service representatives, just so we are clear, we are referring to the employees under Ernest and Carolyne, correct?

A That is correct.

Q And so that would be the likes of Jennifer Bergevin, Brian Rademaker, on the other side under Carolyne, Phil Alexander and that group, correct?

A That is correct.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Would you like to offer Employer's Exhibit 8?

MR. NOLAN: Yes, please.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Is there any objection to that?

MR. KING: 8?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes, 8 is the organizational chart.

MR. KING: No objection.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. It is received.

Does the Union have --

MR. KING: The asset management -- there are these individuals under asset management that are challenged.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: The Union believes that they should be included in the unit?

MR. KING: Correct.

MR. NOLAN: I just say that this comes as a surprise. We in no way, shape or form knew that anyone until this last minute was included so --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Hold on.

MR. KING: Let me ask, are the job titles -- because -- what are the job titles for all of these people?

MR. NOLAN: The asset management. I mean, they are different than customer service specialists.

MR. KING: They have different job titles?

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

MR. KING: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: They are different -- they --

MR. KING: What are -- in all honesty, the farthest right, under the resource center, this is the first org chart I have seen that has them included and I am looking at org charts that we have gotten as recently as a few months ago.

MR. NOLAN: There are -- for instance, if you go into the system and look up org charts for Gretchen, there is only one which is kind of this big picture which lumps in the entire customer care center with the resource center and the -- I mean, totally include the customer care center folks as the people under Carolyne and Ernie but, you know, if we have to go to that, we will go to that. It is just I am not as prepared --

MR. KING: I thought we had dealt with the customer care center. Our stipulation was to the customer care center which was the 20 positions.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So the parties would agree that for purposes of this hearing the asset management employees, Michelle Wilmers, Terri -- Terrio Pitschmann, Monique Gunn are not -- the stipulation is that they would not be included in the appropriate unit as they do not share a sufficient community of interest with the other unit employees?

MR. KING: I have a little problem with the wording. This org chart was apparently not -- there are some positions -- I was talking to Cory and she has under the contract and some recourse there but it not included in this --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Well, what are these people. Let me just ask her a couple of questions.

MR. NOLAN: Yes, sure.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: What are these people's titles, these asset management people? Are they considered customer service representatives?

THE WITNESS: No, they are asset managers. They serve those functions that I described from a financial standpoint for the customers that they are assigned.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And are these positions a new function within -- let's see -- were they created or have they been serving about as long as the others, the customer care specialists, customer service specialists?

THE WITNESS: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: How long have those positions been in --

THE WITNESS: The asset management has been in existence since about the December -- November-December time frame. The resource center, the end of January, beginning of February.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Of this year?

THE WITNESS: Of this year.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: The others were December or November of 2001?

THE WITNESS: Yes, that was correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: The asset management group?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Well, if you want to -- I mean, if we are here and you want to amend your petition, your UC petition to seek the asset management people, then now is the time to do it because either that or you are going to have to stipulate that they are out.

So we are either going to litigate it or they are going to be out. So that is just the way it is. I mean, because we have to reach some conclusion. I mean, you know, now that we know there are these three individuals who nobody knew were in contention before, we got to cut it one way or the other.

MR. KING: I would ask that they be included and I will give you reasons for inclusion and we can go from there.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Let's go off the record for just a minute.

(Off the record.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Back on the record.

Okay. It now appears that there is an additional job title in issue. The three asset management employees referenced on Employer's Exhibit 8 working out of the Customer Service Center named Michelle Wilmers, Terrio Pitschmann and Monique Gunn, the Union has requested to amend its UC Petition to include those individuals in its Petition and I am granting their motion to amend the Petition. We will take evidence on these individual's job duties and they will be included in any decision by the Regional Director.

MR. KING: And just for clarification, when you asked about the ones under resource center, she said they were established in the January to February time frame which was even after our filing date -- I --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So the resource center as well now?

MR. KING: The Petition was filed on February 19th. I don't know if they were created in January or February -- I don't know if the Union was aware of them prior to filing. So they would -- what I would like is -- I don't think it is decided yet but we talked about eliminating the supervisory if they can show evidence that shows -- we would still have the right to withdraw --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes.

MR. KING: -- or stipulate that they are out at that point. I mean, that is -- I am trying to -- I am unaware of their job duties at this time. I wish we had the same org chart. It is a problem.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Let's go forward and we will hear a little bit about what the resource center people do as well. And did I hear that we do have a stipulation that the RANAV --

MR. NOLAN: RFNAV.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- coordinator --

MR. NOLAN: Navigator.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes. RFNAV administrator is appropriately a supervisor and excluded from the unit, is that what I heard?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. So let's go ahead and do that on the record right now. The parties have reached a stipulation that the RFNAV administrator should be excluded from any unit found appropriate because that classification is a statutory supervisor, has the authority to hire, fire, discipline or effectively recommend those actions.

Do the parties so stipulate?

MR. KING: Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Agree.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And who is the person in that position?

MR. NOLAN: Barbara Krzemien, K-r-z-e-m-i-e-n.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Thank you. So Barbara Krzemien in the position of RFNAV administrator will be excluded from any unit found appropriate?

MR. KING: Agreed.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Thank you. All right. Let's go forward.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. We were talking about Employer's Exhibit No. 9, the job description. First of all, does this accurately describe the customer service employee position?

A Yes, it does.

Q Okay. Using this as sort of your starting point or road map, if you will, could you describe perhaps in a greater level of detail what the customer service representatives do?

A Well, sort of walking through this description, it talks about interfacing with customers prior to the sale. That really consists of providing product information to the customer. It includes pricing to the customer on materials, lending technical support as far as what materials would be applicable in a particular customer situation.

The -- once a sale is initiated, the customer care person would be responsible for entering the sales order that they received from the customer and that really includes three or four basic things: the materials that the customer is trying to purchase, the pricing associated with those materials and any shipment information as far as transportation and addresses that need to be documented.

In addition to the individual sales orders that the customer service representative does, they are also responsible for the relationship with that customer. Those things include: conducting conference calls to review our performance data with those customers; it may include sending a report card to those customers on how we performed against their requirements.

They work with the contracts group and the special bids and quote group for any special pricing or opportunities that we have with the special program for that customer.

They are also responsible for the relationship with what we call the AE or the person responsible for the actual sale. They are a member of the sales team that would be involved in that process.

They are responsible to make sure that those orders that are received are scheduled at an appropriate time to meet -- not scheduled but that are committed to ship at an appropriate date based on the customer requested ship date. That is what we call managing our jeopardies, meeting our customer expectations for shipment.

Q Just a couple -- following up on a couple of things you talked about, I believe you alluded to they get involved in the resolution of pricing discrepancies? Is that --

A That is correct.

Q Okay. Could you explain in a little more detail how a customer service representative would about doing that?

A Each of our customers may have individual pricing established for them so that if an order comes in with a price that does not match what the customer has on their order, they are responsible for working with our product marketing group, or product line management group, the pricing people.

It could involve the special bids and quotes group. It could involve the person -- the sales person actually responsible for that to define what the correct pricing needs to be.

Q With respect to delivery discrepancies, which I believe you said that they get involved in that, and dates of deliveries and when there are issues over that, is that correct?

A Yes.

Q How would they go about resolving those sorts of things?

A If our customer has requested a date that we have not committed, we would go to the materials management group, in particular the MRP controller, and ask them could we adjust the date so -- or make adjustment so that that material could be shipped on time.

Q Okay. In placing the customer orders, do the customer service representatives get involved in say -- in adding onto the order or what we sometimes refer to as bundling?

A I am not sure I understand your question.

Q Okay. You indicated that a customer may contact someone in the customer care center to place their order. Is -- in those situations, would the customer care center employee -- the customer service representative -- engage the customer to add on additional items to the order?

A There may be occasions where they do that, yes.

Q Based upon what?

A Based on their technical knowledge, either the customer may be -- has forgot to order a piece that is critical to go into the kit. There may be requirements that two pieces don't go together without the third piece, that kind of thing, based on their technical knowledge of the product.

Q Okay. With respect to the technical product support that they provide --

A Yes.

Q -- could you give us a little more explanation as to, you know, what sort of support they provide and how they provide it?

A Many times a customer will call in and not know a specific material that they are looking for but would be able to describe a situation that they were trying to install of our equipment.

And the customer service representative would either go tot a product catalog or possibly a web site to determine what would be the appropriate product for them to use on that installation and then advise the customer of the availability of that product.

Q Okay. Changing gears slightly from the work that they do to the skills they need to do that work, what sort of skills are the customer service representatives required to possess in order to effectively do their job?

A Well, certainly strong communication skills are required. They have to interface with a large number of organizations, both internal and external. They have to have analytical skills to understand what the discrepancies may be in the pricing.

They also have to have some product knowledge, some technical background to understand how the products go together.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. I would just like to offer Employer 9 for admission.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection to Employer 9?

MR. KING: I have seen somewhere -- let me --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. KING: No objection.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 9 received into evidence.)

MR. NOLAN: Would you mark that as Employer's Exhibit No. 10?

(Employer Exhibit 10 marked for identification.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, would you please look at what I have had marked for identification purposes as Employer's Exhibit No. 10?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Are you familiar with this document?

A Yes, I am.

Q It is hard for me to sort of categorize this but why don't you tell us essentially what this document?

A Basically this document is a listing of the employees that you see with their current management level that we use as far as their pay scale. The HR title that is currently in the system and what their current job assignment is.

Q Okay. And the final column which I believe was sort added for the purpose of this proceeding, do you understand what that means?

A Yes, I do.

Q And what does that, the final column, represent?

A That represents the individual's current assignment. For example, Diane Nicholson is assigned to the resource center.

Q Okay. I am going to the column after that. It doesn’t have a heading. Do you see the final column, lists just tiered rep, or tier rep, going down the page?

A Yes, I understand, yeah, which column it is.

Q Yes, do you understand what that indicates?

A No, I do not.

Q Okay. Then we can get to that.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Perhaps you can tell me what it means?

MR. NOLAN: Yeah, I mean, it obviously is in evidence but what we did for everyone's convenience is just traced where the people came from.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right.

MR. NOLAN: So those that say tier rep after their name like, for instance, P. Alexander, prior to being an A-2 level, customer service representatives in customer service, was a tier employee.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: So --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So we can have some questions about that.

MR. NOLAN: Exactly.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: If this witness knows. Okay. All right. Thank you.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: That having been said --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: You can't put it in without me asking what it means. You thought maybe you would get by without that.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: That having been said -- we will take a few but my first question is more general. Can you tell us where the customer service representatives came from prior to coming into the customer care center? And feel free to use this list as appropriate.

A The tiered -- excuse me -- the customer service representatives came from either the tiered universe here in Omaha or from outside of the Company.

Q Okay. And does it comport with your understanding -- or step back a second -- does -- where we have tiered rep listed after an employee's name, does that accurate represent which employees came from the represented population?

A Yes.

Q And conversely where there is a customer service employee listed and it doesn't say tier rep in the final column, does that then suggest that they were hired from the outside?

A That is correct.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. I would just offer E-10, please.

MR. KING: Just give me one quick look at it.

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

MR. KING: I am trying to match up your organizational chart and this -- am I correct in assuming that all the names would be included with the exception of those in the Cala Region -- if that is the correct pronunciation --

MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, how about that? Does E-10 represent the international folks?

THE WITNESS: E-10 does not have the international folks on there except Leo Torres who is the last one on the list because he is here in Omaha.

There are two additional people on the list that are not -- actually three additional people that are not on E-8. Those would be Albert Rodriguez, Eddie Lund and Sally Swoboda.

MR. NOLAN: Actually looking at the titles in the current assignment column?

THE WITNESS: Right. The two in the inside sales report are classified as customer service rep 3's but they are not in my organization.

MR. KING: I have no problem with this.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. Great.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 10 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Let's clarify with respect to Employee Swoboda. It indicates that her level is that of a Tier 4. So she is a represented employee?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. Does she report up through your organization?

A She is in our head count, yes.

Q Okay. Who supervises her?

A The ETOP facility does. We have never -- as far as my know -- as far as I have been there, I have never seen Sally in our organization. We have never given her any work direction. I believe she takes that on her assignment in ETOP support.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: What is ETOP?

MR. NOLAN: Enhanced training opportunities program.

MR. KING: Are you the witness?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: That came -- okay.

MR. KING: That is okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: We will get that from another --

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Do you know what ETOP is?

A No, I do not.

Q Okay. So as far as you know, although Ms. Swoboda is on your head count, she does nothing for the customer care center?

A That is correct.

Q And no one in the customer care center's management chain supervises her?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. Okay.

MR. NOLAN: And it might just be a good time to get some clarification from the Union, looking at E-10, now that it sounds like the scope of this proceeding has been broadened somewhat by virtue of the amendment to the Petition, it might be useful if the Union could identify on E-10 which positions they are seeking or which positions it is claiming should be entered in?

MR. KING: And that is why I was cross referencing them.

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

MR. KING: Referring to E-8, on the far right of the resource center, there is three names and no titles to them, Peggy Seiter -- Seiter --

THE WITNESS: Seiter. That is correct.

MR. KING: Is a customer service manager --

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. KING: I guess that -- is that a supervisory position -- I simply don't --

THE WITNESS: She is not -- she does not --

MR. KING: I have no idea what --

MR. NOLAN: No.

THE WITNESS: She does not supervise anybody.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Who is that -- Devereaux --

MR. NOLAN: Peggy --

THE WITNESS: Carolyne Devereaux-Cordell and Ernie are the two supervisors.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Oh, I see. P. Seiter. It says, manager 1, I see, but she is not a supervisor?

THE WITNESS: No, she does not supervise anyone.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Does she hold the same position as Jace Schuppan and D. Nicholson in terms of her job duties?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So her title may be --

MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, since we are talking about that, what then is the difference between their levels? I see an A-2, A-3 and A-4?

THE WITNESS: Peggy has been in the job the longest and has the most technical expertise.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. So would it be fair to say she has a greater level of technical expertise than Diane?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Who, in turn, has a greater level of technical expertise than --

THE WITNESS: Jace.

MR. NOLAN: Jace?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. Let's -- so I still think if the Union wants to just kind of wing it on which of these titles they are specifically seeking --

MR. KING: I believe those three titles should be included. I do have questions on asset management under -- referring to E-8, the organizational chart, under asset management there is three titles. I see two of them are Gunn and Wilmers who are assistant to and then there is Terrio Pitschmann -- I apologize if I butchered that. And then three quarters of the way down she is listed as customer service rep 3 in customer service.

THE WITNESS: Right.

MR. KING: On this sheet. How does that correspond to this chart? I am having --

THE WITNESS: She is performing an asset management function. She was moved over there to support the initial customer that we brought on full time for the asset management group and it was to be a trial period over there.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Is she now in the asset management --

THE WITNESS: She is doing an asset management function.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So you put her over there on your organizational chart?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: But she is still classified as a customer service rep 3?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. KING: I don't -- I don't wish to extend this but by the same token until I hear more about asset management --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yeah, I think we have to get into that.

MR. NOLAN: No, okay. And I understand. And I wasn't seeking for you to agree to anything now at this point. I just thought for clarity sake -- just so we are on the same page -- for now, at least, the Union contends that the three resource center specialists on E-10 are properly included in the unit, correct?

MR. KING: Properly included in the challenged unit. These are properly included --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: They should be and they should be clarified into the unit.

MR. NOLAN: Yes, they should be in the unit.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. KING: Yes.

MR. NOLAN: The two individuals with the HR title accounting assistant 2 who are assigned to the asset management group also should be in the unit according to the Union. Everyone with the title customer service rep 3 should be in the unit according to the Union, correct?

MR. KING: Correct.

MR. NOLAN: And that just leaves the two customer service managers who are supervisors and we have already established the Union is not seeking them.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Except for now we are not sure about P. Seiter who is classified as a customer service manager but they are contending --

MR. NOLAN: No. She --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Right.

MR. NOLAN: Non-supervisory. I understand that there are two people that are -- who are clearly supervisors.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes. And can we get a stipulation to that effect that the Union is not seeking Carolyne Devereaux-Cordell, Alyssa Wernlund or Ernst -- Ernest --

MR. NOLAN: Yep.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes. -- because they are supervisors under the Act, can hire, fire, discipline or effectively recommend those actions? Would the parties so stipulate --

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- they should not be included?

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. I'll receive that stipulation.

Now I hate to throw one final monkey wrench into this but there is Mr. Torres and the Union did stipulate that they didn't want the international group earlier and I want to make sure that that is still the case.

MR. KING: I have looked at this and I don't -- they are certainly outside of our jurisdiction and I guess -- as far as he is, he should not be in the unit.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. He would be con -- the Union would stipulate that he should be excluded from the unit because he is a part of the Employer's international customer service operations and therefore does not share -- as do the other customer service representatives who operate in the overseas operations -- does not share a sufficient community of interest with the other customer service representatives?

MR. KING: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Would the -- and that is fine with the Employer?

MR. NOLAN: Absolutely.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So he will be excluded.

And I think that the Union earlier has sought to amend the Petition, the UC Petition, to include the asset management people but had not sought to amend the Petition at that point to include the resource center employees. Does the Union now wish to amend its UC Petition to seek the resource center employees, D. Nicholson, J. Schuppan and P. Seiter?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I'll allow -- is there any objection to the amendment?

MR. NOLAN: No, no objection to the amendment.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. I'll allow the amendment without speaking to whether it will be granted or not. Okay.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, let's focus on the resource center specialist. Realizing that there are different levels which you have already testified to representing different levels of experience and expertise, could you describe what they do as a group and individually?

A As a group, they are responsible for supplying what we call our Tier 2 support for technical issues. On every piece of documentation that we have as a company, our catalogs, our web site, we offer an 800 number where our customers can all in and receive technical support.

That 800 number goes into this resource center and -- do you want me to -- I can go through how it came to be in the January/February time frame or not.

Q Yes. Some of the history would be useful.

A The reason that this resource center was just organized within my organization, as a company Avaya went through a pretty significant FMP activity --

Q Just so we are clear, FMP is?

A FMP is the force management reduction and when that was done, the resource center that used to be in New Hampshire and in Spokane, Washington, had to be redirected to the Omaha facility so we pulled three people together and the three that you see on the chart to form that resource center to offer technical support to our customers.

Q So this sort of technical support which is really the people that -- that staff that 800 number was previously done in New Hampshire, you say?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. The individuals that fill these positions, did they follow the work from New Hampshire?

A No, they did not. They came from other pieces in my organization.

Q Okay. Where did Nicholson come from?

A Nicholson was reporting directly to me and supporting activities and general project management kind of activities for myself. In the past, she had also been involved in international customer service.

Q Okay. And Schuppan?

A Schuppan came from the distribution team under Ernie as part of that CSR process.

Q Okay. And Seiter?

A And Peggy was performing a role of the Tier 2 technical support, supporting the people here in Omaha in a kind of a parallel process to the people in Spokane and New Hampshire.

Q Okay. And were Nicholson, Schuppan or Seiter represented employees in their prior positions?

A No, they were not.

Q Okay. So they were what we generically refer to as management employees.

A That is correct.

Q And as far as you know, was the work that was being done up in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, which we recently closed, that is now being done here and is represented by these three employees, was that work represented work up in Portsmouth?

A No, it was not.

Q So the folks doing that work in Portsmouth were not Union employees?

A That is correct.

Q They were management employees?

A That is correct.

Q All right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: You use the term management employees loosely, correct?

MR. NOLAN: Management, lower case 'm,' as per Avaya and not the Act.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: Do you need to hear more on the customer service, on the resource center specialists?

That's okay. Just --

MR. KING: Just until we --

MR. NOLAN: Just checking. Just wanted to see if that was enough to realize that they don't belong here but that is fine.

I am just kind of winging it here because we never thought that this would be included. It is so far removed.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Has anyone -- Gretchen, within your recollection, has any of the tiered employees at issue here, the material management analyst, ever performed any of the work that the resource center specialists are currently doing?

A No.

Q Okay. And has that work itself ever been performed in Omaha?

A No.

Q Okay. Now what about the customer care center itself? How long has it been in Omaha?

A We began hiring the persons in -- right before we became Avaya, which I believe was 2000. June, July we did the interviewing. We took our first customer order in about the August time frame of 2000.

Q So prior to approximately August of 2000, there did not exist a customer care center in Omaha?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. Where was the customer care function for Connectivity Solutions performed prior to that time?

A That organization resided in St. Louis.

Q And so I take it a portion of that organization moved to Omaha in around the August of 2000 time frame?

A We had two managers that moved with the organization from St. Louis. None of the other personnel that were in St. Louis came to Omaha.

Q Okay. Why did a portion of that organization -- grant it not necessarily employees but why did a portion of the organization itself come to Omaha?

A Well, when we began this split between Lucent and Avaya, we never had within Avaya -- the piece that became Avaya -- what we call quote to cash process which allowed us to manage orders from the taking of the orders to applying payment at the end of the process so that was a new function that we required within Avaya

Q Okay. And did the St. Louis customer care center support other organizations other than Connectivity Solutions within Lucent?

A Yes, they did.

Q Okay. Were the current customer care center employees that are within your organization doing the same work that their predecessor customer care center employees were doing in St. Louis?

A Yes.

Q Were the St. Louis customer care center employees represented by any union as far as you know?

A No.

Q Prior to the movement of the customer care center folks to Omaha, that is the people from St. Louis coming down to Omaha, were there any employees on site in Omaha that performed any sort of customer service type work?

A No.

Q Gretchen, would you please take a look at what I have handed you as -- and has been marked for identification purposes as Employer Exhibit 11, please?

(Employer Exhibit 11 marked for identification.)

A Yes.

Q Okay. Are you familiar with this document?

A Yes, I am.

Q Did you author this document?

A Yes -- did I author this document?

Q Yes.

A No.

Q Is it -- did you create it?

A No.

Q Okay. How is it then that you are familiar with it?

A This document was shared as part of the person that I took over the job with, he showed me this document from customer care center.

Q Do you have an understanding as to why this document was prepared?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Why is that?

A It is my understanding that this document was prepared as part of ongoing discussions that the Union and the customer care center management people were having.

Q Now the title of the document refers to the CRC/Region versus Omaha customer service. What is your understanding of what is meant by the term CRC/Region?

A The CRC/Region was the group that I referred to in St. Louis that was responsible for doing the order entry and dealing with the customers.

Q Okay. And what is your understanding of the meaning of the phrase 'Omaha customer service?'

A My understanding of that phrase is the group of people that interfaced with the CRC or Region from Omaha.

Q Okay. So tying this back to a question I previously asked you, I asked you if prior to the movement of the customer care center from St. Louis to Omaha if anyone in Omaha did customer service work, and I believe you said no.

To the extent this then refers to customer service work, it is actually interfaced with St. Louis?

A That is correct.

Q So folks in Omaha were not interfacing directly with customers prior to approximately August of 2000?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. Could you explain then in a little more detail then what these folks that are loosely referred to in this document as Omaha customer service employees -- for lack of a better term -- what specifically they did and how it -- how it fit into the customer service process?

A The customer service representatives that we had in that we had in the St. Louis area were responsible for entering the sales orders and interfacing with the customers.

When those sales orders were batch processed to the Omaha facility on an overnight basis into the Omaha system so that those orders could be managed, this group was responsible for if there were any errors in that transmission working those errors back with the -- what we called on this document the CRC and Region.

Q And I don't want to put words in your mouth but is it fair to characterize the 'Omaha customer service employees' as facilitating the orders that were placed by the customers and service reps in St. Louis?

A That is correct. They were responsible for making sure that they flowed correctly.

Q Okay. But the customer service employees in St. Louis always had customer interface portion of the customer service function?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. And the folks that we have been referring to as Omaha customer service employees, were they represented employees?

A Yes.

Q And are they people that we loosely refer to -- or at least that are covered under their current contract as material management analysts?

A Yes.

Q And take as much time as you need to review the document entitled job functions, CRC/Region versus Omaha customer service because I would like you to then answer whether it, from your perspective, accurately describes the differences between what the customer service people were doing in St. Louis versus what these people that are referred to as Omaha customer service people were doing.

A Yes, I would say it is accurate.

A That is correct.

Q Are there still employees here in Omaha that do what is referred to in this document, E-11, as customer service work other than -- but yet not in the customer care center?

A No.

Q Okay. What happened to those employees?

A As part of the transition, when we moved the functionality that was in the CRC Region, we incorporated the sales order management into what we call our SAP system. So the orders were being directly entered into the same system that was being managed by the materials management group so the need to have the interface between the two systems and the reason codes and the things mentioned in here went away.

Q And the actual employees that performed that work, what happened to them? Were they let go or did they move elsewhere?

A Well, going back to your document, E-10, some of those moved into the new customer care center here in Omaha, some of them went into the materials management group.

MR. NOLAN: I would like to move E-11 into evidence, please.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: None.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 11 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, where do the customer care center employees physically work?

A They work in an area called Building 51 which is kind of at the end of our building, end of the office areas.

Q Okay. Are they in a segregated work area?

A We have our own entrance for those employees.

Q Okay. Let's -- we'll focus on the entrance in a minute but in terms of the actual physical layout -- and this is very difficult without a map, obviously. But describe, if you could, their area and how it may be set off or otherwise different from other areas in the facility?

A All of the customer service representatives are in approximately four rows of small cubicles. They are arranged by customer so those CRS's that are servicing the same customer are all grouped together.

Q And surrounding the cubicles is there a walled area? I mean, is this a set off room?

A The room is divided basically because the next row of people have high partitions that kind of segregate us from the customer service representatives.

Q Okay. In this -- well, I don't want to put words in your mouth -- what do you consider it? Do you consider this a separate area, a separate building?

A Separate area within the building.

Q All right. Let's talk about the entrance. Is it a secured entrance, that is, you need a card to access it?

A Yes, it is.

Q And do all Omaha employees have a card to open that door?

A No, they do not.

Q Okay. I take it, obviously, the customer care center people have a card for that door?

A Yes, they do.

Q Do other Omaha employees?

A There is another organization that also resides in Building 51 that have access to that same area.

Q Okay. And can use that door?

A And can use that door.

Q Are they represented employees as far as you know?

A No, they are not.

Q Okay. So as far as you know, none of the tiered employees have access to this facility through that door?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. Do tiered employees have occasion to enter the customer care center area, segregated area, with any frequency?

A Yes, they probably visit on a daily basis.

Q But they are seated elsewhere in the facility?

A That is correct.

Q Was this facility, the physical area where the customer care center is set up with the cubicles and everything, did that exist prior to around August of 2000?

A No, it did not. It was created when we moved this function to Omaha.

Q What shifts do your customer care center employees work?

A Their start times vary but we cover the phones from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., five days a week.

Q And what shift -- does a typical customer service employee work 12 days -- 12 hours a day or --

A No. They typically work seven hours -- excuse me -- they work eight hours a day but we stagger their start times so that we can cover both coasts because we have customers that need to be serviced across the United States.

Q So, for instance, you may have a 7:00 to 3:00 shift -- an employee working 7:00 to 3:00 and then someone maybe --

A Start at 10:00 and go to 7:00.

Q Okay. Now the customer care center employees, are they what we have been loosely referring to within Avaya speak, if you will, as management employees?

A Yes, they are.

Q Okay. Which means that they are subject to all of Avaya'a employment policies for management employees, correct?

A Yes.

Q And I take it that means that -- and you might have heard some testimony from this before -- are they reviewed under what is known as a performance management platform?

A Yes, they are.

Q And how often?

A They have a formal review every six months.

Q And I guess like the purchasing specialists who we have already heard testimony on, are they also eligible for bonuses twice a year?

A That is correct.

Q And are those bonuses guaranteed?

A No.

Q Are the customer care center employees eligible for an annual raise under what is known as the salary merit increase?

A Yes.

Q And is that guaranteed?

A No.

Q You alluded already to the FMP. I take it that is the means by which we terminate customer care center employees if we need to reduce our head count?

A That is correct.

Q And what is the primary criteria for selection for termination under the FMP?

A Performance.

Q And have we had to implement the FMP in the customer care center recently?

A Yes, we did.

Q And so I take it some customer care center employees were terminated?

A That is correct.

Q And based upon?

A Performance.

Q Gretchen, could you just take a look a that document that we have marked as Employer's Exhibit 12? Do you recognize that?

(Employer Exhibit 12 marked for identification.)

A Yes, I do.

Q And can you tell us what this is?

A It is the departmental guidelines that we have established for the customer care center.

Q Okay. And these apply to all your customer care center employees?

A That is correct.

Q I notice on Employer's Exhibit No. 12, there is a dress code on page 3, do you see that?

A Yes.

Q Could you explain why you need a dress code in the customer care center?

A Well, being as we are the front line for the customer, we frequently have customers come through and we want to make sure that the image that we portray is professional so we have established the dress code there.

Q So your customer care center employees then do interact with customers in person sometimes?

A Sometimes, yes.

MR. NOLAN: I would like to offer E-12, please?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: No objection.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 12 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Now within the customer care center, Gretchen, who is specifically responsible for the hiring of customer care center employees, the customer service representatives, if you will?

A The managers would be responsible. Ernie and Carolyne, in this case, would be responsible certainly with coaching from Cassandra and Ann.

Q Okay. And likewise, who is responsible for performance management?

A The supervisors.

Q And, if necessary, who is responsible for discipline?

A The supervisors.

Q Okay. And who is responsible for scheduling?

A The supervisors.

Q Okay. And what about -- we have already talked about evaluation.

And when you refer to the supervisors, do those individuals that you have been referring to as the supervisors in this organization also supervise what we have been referring to as the tiered employees?

A No, they do not.

Q Okay. Now we have talked about the title of materials management analyst, that is a Union title. Are you familiar with that title?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Just for clarity's sake because occasionally I think I might have heard reference to it or I am sure I will in the future, is that what we also refer to as an MRP?

A it could be, yes.

Q So MRP could be a subset, if you will of materials management analyst?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. And what is an MRP?

A The MRP are the material resource planning group that are responsible for scheduling for production; either that, or for procuring materials.

Q Okay. Have you ever had supervisory responsibility for any materials management analysts in the facility?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Could you describe as it -- just describe generally what the materials management analysts do and I know that that is kind of a broad term because of the people that are in it but to the extent you can generalize, what do those folks do?

A In general, they are responsible for the execution of a production plan that we would say we either need to buy material or produce material and they would be responsible for the execution of that plan.

Q Does their job require them to interface with customers?

A No.

Q Do they have any role in the -- the placing of orders with Avaya when a customer places orders?

A No.

Q Where do the materials management analysts work at the Omaha facility?

A The majority of them are in the materials management organization. There are a few in what we call the production realization group that are responsible specific for new product introductions.

Q Okay. And where are those two organizations physically located with respect to the customer care center?

A The materials management group is on the same level but in a different building. The product realization group is on the second floor of what we call Building 20 which is a ways away from us.

Q And the materials management analysts, obviously as represented folks, they are covered by the Union contract?

A That is correct.

Q And so whatever shifts are set forth in the Union contract are the shifts they work?

A That is correct.

Q Do those shifts correspond with the shifts that your people work in the customer care center?

A They would not typically be there until 7:00 o'clock at night. Most of those would be -- probably leave the building by 4:00 o'clock.

Q Okay. Now let's go back to some of your earlier testimony regarding what your folks in the customer care center do, and you gave us some extensive testimony on that and I will try and remember what you said. But generally do the tiered employees, that is any of the materials management analysts do any of the sort of things that you described as work that customer care center employees do?

A No.

Q Okay. And we already talked about customer contact. Do they get involved in the resolving of pricing discrepancies, for example?

A Absolutely not.

Q Do they get involved in technical product support?

A No.

Q Now I think you testified earlier that -- looking at Employer's Exhibit No. 10 -- some of these employees came to the customer care center from the tiered or represented universe. Have any employees from the customer care center gone on to take a position in the tiered universe?

A No.

Q And for those folks that did come to your organization form the tiered universe, is that considered a promotion?

A Yes.

Q Do employees in the customer care center ever rotate with employees in the represented universe? In other words, do they ever do any of their jobs on a temporary basis?

A No.

Q Conversely, is there any temporary rotation of tiered folks into your organization?

A No.

Q Other than after a promotion into your organization, as was the case with the individual listed on E-10, do any of the tiered employees receive training in customer service?

A No.

Q And did the tiered individuals that came into the customer care center listed on E-10, did they require initial training before they performed their customer service responsibilities?

A Yes, definitely.

Q Could you explain that training?

A That training consisted of the SAP, the system transactions that would be required, extensive product training on the products that they would be servicing to the customers, training on how to deal with the customers, you know, etiquette as far as answering the phone, how you should respond on the phone. So there was a broad range of training.

Q Now there -- I think we talked about the resource center specialists. There is also an issue as to the employees in the asset management group. Let's focus on them a little more specifically.

According to E-10, it looks like their HR title at least is accounting assistant. Does that comport with your recollection?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Why don't you describe for us in a little more detail what the accounting assistants do in the asset management organization?

A They are responsible for the financial piece of managing orders so that includes that the invoices are getting paid by our customers, managing the payables from them -- excuse me -- the receivables from them, the disputes that may be involved in those invoices as well as disputes involved in shipments, whether we over shipped, under shipped, or shipped the wrong product.

That group also -- asset management group -- also supports the cash application activity when our customers remit money back to us making sure that it is getting applied to the correct documentation.

Q So if -- just to put this in a little more concrete terms -- if I am a customer and I dispute my invoice, would I deal with someone in asset management?

A Yes.

Q And could they reconcile that dispute?

A Normally that would involve going back to the customer service representative and soliciting history or data from them and then they would resolve that.

Q Okay. Likewise, suppose -- well, let me ask you this. Do the asset management folks get involved in customers that aren't paying on time?

A They do, yes.

Q How?

A They manage the account to number of days outstanding of the invoices. They work with the sales person responsible for that account to try to collect that money from them. If it is not being collected, they escalate within the customer organization to make sure that we are getting paid.

Q Okay. Again, I don't want to put words in your mouth and you can restate this however you see fit, but would it be fair to say that the customer service representatives deal with the customer up to and through the time of order placement and then the asset management folks deal with the customer relationship from that point going forward? Or have I moved that line too far forward?

A I think there is some overlap there. There is not a concrete line. Certainly if we have a problem with a shipment, the customer may call into the customer service representative. If that becomes a dispute, then that would move it to the asset management.

If it is something that the customer service representative can handle by maybe shipping another part out if we shorted them a part or whatever, that would not necessarily have to involve the asset manager.

Q Okay. Do asset management folks interact with people in your CFO or treasury organization?

A Definitely.

Q Could you explain how that works?

A The asset managers work closely with our financial group because it is an immediate financial impact if our customers aren't paying in the cash flow. So they are dealing with the accounting organization to manage those accounts.

The CFO organization may also step in and give us some guidelines on what can be written off, what can't be written off as far as outstanding payment from the vendor -- or from the customers.

Q Now when you say written off, do you mean when a customer owes us money at what point can we decide that we are never going to get it?

A Right.

Q Okay. And the asset managers work with the finance people to make that decision?

A That is correct.

Q What about if the customer goes into bankruptcy? Do the asset management people get involved?

A Definitely.

Q How so?

A They are responsible for putting a hold on that -- or insuring that there is a hold put on that customer so that we can no longer receive orders or ship orders to that customer so that we are not any more exposed.

They also work with providing documentation that may support us getting money through a bankruptcy hearing or something.

Q And to the extent that customers return equipment, which may cause us to have to revise revenue, do the asset managers start that process?

A They are responsible for the RMA which is return material authorization which the customer is required to have before they can return the material. They reference that document and then they would get credit according to the policies in place.

Q You just gave us very extensive testimony on what the asset management people do and I think we have certainly a better idea. Do any of the tiered employees, materials management analysts, get involved in any part of asset management?

A No.

Q So with, for instance, poor paying customers, a represented employee wouldn't get involved with that customer?

A No.

Q And as far as you know, have any represented employees performed that asset management work in the past?

A No.

Q And the asset management people are also located in the area that -- this separate area known as the customer care center?

A No, they are in their separate area. Actually the asset management is split between the Omaha facility and we have another facility in Pennsylvania where some of the asset managers reside that are not in my organization.

Q Okay. And do they interact with each other?

A Yes.

Q Explain for us, if you could, please, a little -- in a little more detail something I think you testified to earlier which is the movement of Terrio Pitschmann into the asset management organization despite having the customer service rep title?

A We had an immediate need in the December time frame. We have one particular customer account that was in disarray and we needed to put resources on that immediately to clean that account up and we had Michelle who was already in the asset management group and we needed to provide additional support to her so we moved Terri over there to help that operation.

Q Okay. So Terri moved into your organization to perform actual asset management work?

A Limited asset management work. She was not performing everything that a Michelle would do.

Q Okay. Do you anticipate that Terri is going to stay in asset management?

A No, it is anticipated that that account will be to a level where we can back off from the support that is required within the next 30 to 60 days.

Q Okay. At which point you anticipate that Terri would come back into customer service?

A That is correct.

MR. NOLAN: To the extent it matters, and we can certainly -- I mean, depending on how it plays out -- stipulate that however we go with this Terri is customer service and not asset management. So if that helps on your decision as to whether to relinquish the asset management piece or not, certainly that is something I think that might clear things up and I -- because I suspect that that might have been the root of some issues but I just throw that out there.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: The asset management employees, let's focus on them a little more from the perspective of their qualifications. What are their qualifications?

A Well, I would see some accounting background. They have strong analytical skills, very rigorous discipline around handling the credit and debits as that immediately affects the bottom line.

Q And how long has -- let's focus on Employee Gunn. How long has Employee Gunn been in the accounting assistant position, as far as you know?

A I believe it was about the beginning of December time frame.

Q Okay.

A She and Michelle were both about the same time.

Q Okay. Where did they come from?

A They came from the customer service group.

Q Okay. And why were they selected to move into asset management?

A Because of their background and their analytical skills.

Q When you say their background, meaning they have some sort of finance background?

A Um-hmm. Accounting.

Q And understanding we don't have a job description in front of us, is -- is that a requirement for the position going forward, a financial background?

A I couldn't say for sure if that is in the requirements document.

Q Knowing you are not looking at it --

A Right.

Q -- could you --

A I would --

Q -- at least believe that that is a --

A Yes, it should be.

Q Okay. And prior to -- you said they went from customer service representative positions into asset management. Where did they come from prior to coming into the customer care center?

A Outside of the Company.

Q Who was performing the asset management function before they moved into it in December?

A It was contracted out to a company called Dun & Bradstreet in Pennsylvania.

Q And when you referred to these asset management people having counterparts in Pennsylvania, are they still Dun & Bradstreet employees as far as you know?

A In Pennsylvania?

Q The people doing this work in Pennsylvania?

A Yes.

Q All right. So these two individuals were -- they were -- were they on site when they worked for Dun & Bradstreet?

A I maybe misunderstood your question. They were -- Dun & Bradstreet is in Pennsylvania.

Q Right.

A When we split from Lucent, asset management had been covered in St. Louis. Asset management was contracted outside to Dun & Bradstreet in Pennsylvania. Because of the condition of the account that I referred to earlier and also the general state of returns, we agreed to move that function back in house and that is at the time that we assigned these two people to do that.

Q So there was a time during which you had a fully functioning independent customer care center in Omaha but you weren't doing the asset management function?

A That is correct.

Q That was still being done by Dun & Bradstreet?

A That is correct.

Q And in around December of '01, 2001, you decided to move that work from Dun & Bradstreet in house?

A Actually we were directed by the financial organization to do that.

Q And these two individuals that came into asset management, they came from customer service, correct?

A That is correct.

Q And prior to coming in to customer service, they came from where?

A Outside of Avaya. I am not sure where.

MR. NOLAN: Oh. Okay. I have no more questions subject to perhaps having to recall the witness after we consider any additional evidence we may have on the resource center specialist or the asset management employees.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Cross-examination?

MR. KING: Yes.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. KING: In your testimony you talked about some of the job duties of the customer service reps and you mentioned advising customers of correct products. This was early on -- this was -- and you said they had available web sites for technical assistance.

What subject do they go to, to get information for that?

A Are you referring to the web site or --

Q Yes.

A On the web site they would have different web sites for different product lines. If they were looking for a Systimax product and they knew it was jumper or -- depending on what product they looking for, they would go to a catalog to look up that information.

Q So when you refer to web site, is this the Avaya intranet?

A Yes.

Q Okay. So that information is available to anyone with computer skills? You just need the appropriate level of training to get to that stage?

A There are some things that are customer specific and those require a security access so that just anybody in Avaya couldn't go to them.

Q But what is available to them is available to them on the Company intranet?

A That is correct.

Q And you talked about technical knowledge to add to the orders.

A Um-hmm.

Q Do you provide them with any other tools as far as what they need to do to add to their technical expertise?

A Yes. We provide periodic training. Usually at least once per month we go over training on a specific product line or a new product that is coming out or issues that we have seen with the existing products.

Q And when asked for the -- on E-9 -- you were asked to expound on exactly what was necessary for this position, you talked about interfacing with customers and scheduling and shipping, and you stated when you hired these people that you gave them some training.

What -- do they need to leave the facility or is the training done in house?

A I believe for the most part it was. There may have been some that was off site.

Q And you didn't mention -- there is no degree requirements though on this?

A A bachelor's degree is preferred but it is not a requirement.

Q Not a requirement. You talked about a resource center specialist. You said that work had been done in New Hampshire and in Washington, I believe?

A Um-hmm.

Q Prior to coming here? You testified that in New Hampshire it was management employees and you further testified that none of them transferred to Omaha?

A That is correct.

Q Is there a transfer system within Avaya or -- yeah, within Avaya would be the appropriate time frame -- for management employees if they relocate? Is there a relocation program?

A It depends on the position. Relocation may be offered with some positions and not with others.

Q Do you know if this was offered?

A No, it was not offered.

Q So the -- is it fair to say the level of expertise was available?

A Yes.

Q When you say management -- by management employees, we are still talking small 'm' management as in they were not in the bargaining unit?

A That is correct.

Q Do you know the facility they worked in New Hampshire, was that a manufacturing facility?

A Not to my knowledge.

Q This was a stand alone support center?

A Yes.

Q Do you know if there were any represented employees at that facility?

A I don't know. I don't know if there were any.

Q You don't know. Okay. Then the customer support center that was transferred from St. Louis, the work that was transferred from St. Louis, again, the facility in St. Louis, was that a manufacturing facility?

A No, it was not.

Q And it was also a stand alone facility?

A Yes.

Q And do you know if there were any unions at that facility?

A I do not know.

Q Did you ever visit the St. Louis facility?

A No.

Q For the record, what you are testifying as to management employees, if there is no union everyone there is a management employee, is that your understanding?

A Yes.

Q We talked a bit about the physical layout of the facility with the customer service reps. Now this was a newly erected facility for -- specifically for the purpose of the customer service -- customer care center?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And the nature of the work in the center was a lot of time spent on the phone?

A Yes.

Q So was the layout considered when you built the facility?

A Yes.

Q So when you talk about it not being connected to the manufacturing setup, could that have been done for the sound purposes?

A It could have been, yes.

Q Is the facility -- do you find the facility to be adequate --

A Yes.

Q -- for the purposes it serves?

A Um-hmm.

Q So you are not distracted and you are able to talk on the phone?

A That is correct.

Q And we have talked about access control. Is it advantageous to not have other employees wandering through the facility interfering with phone calls?

A Interfering with the phone calls and also if we are entertaining customers there it is good not to have that kind of commotion going through there.

Q Just what sort of entertaining of customers would go on there?

A Well, I mean meeting with customers that -- if we are going through a meeting --

Q Oh, touring the facility?

A Right.

Q Okay. And then you testified that -- I may get this wrong -- did you testify no tiered employees have access to the center?

A From the outside entrance, that is correct.

Q Is there a --

A There is an entrance from the hallway that they can enter during our business hours. After business hours, they can't.

Q So when you are talking about it being a secure facility, what --

A Compared to other areas within the facility, we could walk through any part of the office area other than this one after 6:00 o'clock. That is not something they would be able to do and enter the area after 6:00 o'clock at night.

Q So customer care center employees have access to the entire facility?

A That is correct.

Q You talked about the working schedule, 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., five days a week?

A Yes.

Q Are they compensated for overtime for hours after 40?

A Yes.

Q Referring to Exhibit 12, did you develop these guidelines?

A In Omaha, yes, we did. I did participate in it personally.

Q Oh, you did not develop these guidelines?

A Right.

Q But Omaha management did?

A That is correct.

Q And were they well received by your employees?

A I know of no issues with it.

Q Did they have input into them?

A I couldn't answer that since I wasn't involved when they rolled them out.

Q You mentioned that you had a dress code. Are you aware -- are there any other dress codes in Omaha that you know of?

A I believe there is one about the kind of shoes you have to have on the manufacturing floor but that is the only one that I would be aware of.

Q But the guidelines themselves, while you have a different set of standards for -- I'm sorry. Let me rephrase that. While you have guidelines that cover just the customer care center employees, that is not any reason why you are stating that they are -- that doesn't exclude tier employees from -- from doing items on --

A No.

Q I botched that question. Let me rephrase it. Putting aside the guidelines for the customer care center employees --

A Yes.

Q -- if the Company desired to do so, they could negotiate guidelines for any employees?

A Yes.

Q You mentioned -- you had a discussion about MRP, which I -- planners, is that the same term as MRP?

A Yes.

Q And your testimony is that they do not at all interface with customers?

A That is correct.

Q And they do not at all place orders?

A That is correct.

Q And you stated they are typically gone by 4:00 o'clock?

A I would say that is their average end of their shift.

Q But there are other union employees that are present after 4:00 o'clock certainly? The question dealt specifically with planners and your testimony was --

A Right.

Q -- only that the planners were done typically by 4:00 o'clock?

A Yes.

Q Okay. You stated that employees came from -- referring to Employer's Exhibit 10 --

A Yes.

Q -- there are ten employees that came out of the tiered --they came out of the -- out of our Union?

A Yes.

Q You testified that that was considered a promotion?

A Yes.

Q What -- by who was that considered a promotion? Is that your opinion?

A I think the perception is that when you go from the tiered universe to a management position that that would be considered a promotion. It is a perception.

Q Okay. You testified that no one bid back into a tiered position, if I am using the right term, bid on a posting into a tiered position?

A Yes.

Q Do you know -- are you aware of -- were there tiered positions in the materials management offered during the time from the time of the start of this facility which was in the middle of 2000, end of 2000, to the present? Are you aware of any postings?

A I can't answer that. I don't know.

Q And you stated that -- I may get this wrong -- no -- what I have is there was no training of tiered employees in customer service. Did I overstate that?

A I --

Q What was the question on the training for tiered employees?

A I think the question was, as I understood it, that did we train the material planners or any tiered people on the activities that the customer care center did and that would be no.

Q And am I correct in saying that no training is offered to these tiered employees?

A That is correct.

Q We talked about the initial staffing. You stated that they were trained in SAP product training, etiquette in phone usage?

A Yes.

Q All right. Is this training that is offered to all management employees or is this specific to the customer care center?

A The training was specific to the customer care center.

Q So it was evolved to address a specific need?

A That is correct.

Q And it is not a -- a course applying to anyone?

A That is correct.

Q Are you aware of any training programs for the tiered employees?

A No.

Q In the area of the asset management, I am not sure I fully understood this. Was all of the asset management work being done by Dun & Bradstreet in Pennsylvania prior to this spin off of Avaya, prior to Avaya?

A No. The asset management work was being done in St. Louis by Lucent employees.

Q Okay. And after that time, now it is done in Omaha and in Pennsylvania?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. Thank you. Now specifically to Terrio Pitschmann -- is that right, if you know?

A I think it is a typo actually.

Q Is it Terri?

A Terri, yes. That is all I have ever called her.

Q Pitschmann?

A That is correct.

Q She was moved from customer service management to address immediate needs was your testimony?

A That is correct.

Q So she was able to move into asset management with minimal additional training from the degree of training she received in customer service?

A She was trained on very specific transactions related to asset management that needed to support this particular customer. She was not trained on the whole asset management function.

Q Approximately what amount of time did it take to -- was that something -- let me rephrase that.

Did you take her out and per her in training for a specific period of time and then bring her in to asset management or was this more just in time type training where we are just going to get trained to the job?

A I would say it is more just in time where we did more on-the-job training after we moved her over into that position.

Q But she was in essence able to move into asset management and pick up some of the duties while working the job?

A Yes.

Q I'll give you an opportunity to read this.

(Petitioner Exhibit 3 marked for identification.)

A Okay.

Q Okay. This -- are you familiar with this piece of paper or --

A I haven't seen this particular document before but it looks like the job req for customer service specialist that was posted in -- when we were beginning hiring for the customer care center.

Q And this is you believe the requisition for the employees that are currently in question?

A Yes.

Q And that -- I do for one thing want to clarify that the job title says, 'Assc customer service specialist.' What does that -- does that stand for anything?

A That is the first time I have ever seen that job title.

Q It was earlier where I stated we had the title associate -- I just was assuming something -- but this is the posting? This is like the posting? What is the date on this posting?

A 5/24/2000.

Q And the number of openings?

A Thirty.

Q Which wouldn't be typical of other than the initial staffing?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So if at some point it said, Assc, you don't use the term associate?

THE WITNESS: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

Q BY MR. KING: And you did not help develop this posting?

A No, I did not.

MR. KING: Okay. I offer Union 3.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. NOLAN: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Union 3 is received.

(Petitioner Exhibit 3 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. KING: In asset management, you talked about an accounting background and financial background. Can you state -- are you aware of anyone with advanced degrees in accounting or finance or degrees -- let me restate that -- degrees in accounting or finance in these customer service specialists or customer care center positions?

A I could not speak to what degrees they have, no.

Q Okay. In analytical skills, do you give tests to measure that?

A No.

MR. KING: Nothing further.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Let me ask a couple before you -- if you have an redirect.

MR. NOLAN: Um-hmm.

EXAMINATION

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: When you testified about the customer service center representatives, the customer care center representatives interacting with the MRP controller --

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- and the materials management department -- is that right?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And in what situations would they deal with the MRP controller and the materials management department?

THE WITNESS: Let me clarify first, the MRP controller is in the materials management group.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: Sometimes I use the word planner, I am sure, to refer to them as well.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: A controller is the same thing as the planner?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And are those unit positions?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Those are represented positions?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Whatever we call these people? Materials management -- help me out somebody.

THE WITNESS: Analysts, I think.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Materials management analysts under the contract.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So when you use the term MRP controller and materials management planner you use it interchangeably with the unit position of materials management analyst?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And how do they deal with the -- how do your people, your customer service representatives, deal with the unit people?

THE WITNESS: Most of the time that they are dealing with the MRP controller, planner, would be when we are asked by our customer to improve the ship date on a product, maybe change the shipping location, those kinds of things. We would be interfacing with the MRP controller to see if the order could be rescheduled.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: How frequently would you estimate that a customer service representative would -- since very has been using the term -- interface -- communicate or talk to an analyst about expediting an order, changing an order, whatever it is?

THE WITNESS: Daily.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Daily?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And is this face to face communication or is this over an intercom, a phone?

THE WITNESS: Typically it would be either phone or email.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And these planners, the materials management analysts, you say most of those people -- you have actually supervised those people?

THE WITNESS: I supervised a small group of them, yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. In what department?

THE WITNESS: I supervised them in the product realization group which we had a small group of materials management people that were responsible for the initial introductions of products and dealt with scheduling the initial production build.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And then there is the other, larger group that is --

THE WITNESS: Supporting the majority of production --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And they do --

THE WITNESS: -- day to day activities.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Those are the ones that your people would be dealing with?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And approximately how many of those materials management analysts in that materials department are there?

THE WITNESS: I think we had that number earlier. It is probably 40 --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: 40 or 50?

THE WITNESS: Forty.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And -- okay. And it would be a daily occurrence? Would you say that it is multiple occasions during the day then that they are having to deal back and forth?

THE WITNESS: It may be. In the customer care center, we are divided by customers so we may have to deal with three or four different material planners --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And they have different --

THE WITNESS: They are divided by product.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: And so we might have to deal with three or four of them --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right.

THE WITNESS: -- in the course of a day.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Now you also testified in connection with this document about the Omaha customer service employees and the fact that their jobs were sort of -- became obsolete.

How many of those Omaha customer service employees were there prior to Avaya moving the St. Louis customer service center to Omaha?

THE WITNESS: I don't know that number. I would say about nine or ten.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now you said that the advent of the SAP soft -- the use of the software and movement of the St. Louis jobs to Omaha did away with the need for that sort of interface between the Omaha customer service and the St. Louis people?

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now, in fact, is that another of saying that the -- tell me if I am wrong but does that mean that when those St. Louis customer care service -- your employees, did they subsume the duties of the Omaha customer service center people? I mean, were those duties then sort of subsume by your employees?

THE WITNESS: Those functions just went away. I mean --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Tell me how -- how can -- I don't understand how they went away?

THE WITNESS: Let me think of how to describe it better. When we had the customer -- the -- what we are calling the Region in St. Louis --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: -- they entered the sales order and that sales order was transmitted from one system to another system here in Omaha. When we went to the quote to cash process in SAP, all of that was now done in SAP so there was really no transmission and no chance for that order to need the care that the customer -- what we are calling the customer service group here in Omaha to do any longer.

That need just went away because the two systems were no longer there to talk to each other. We only had one system. That system is shared by the customer care center and the materials management group that does the planning.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So there was a middle man who is no longer needed because of new computer software and the movement of the employees. There didn't need to be an interface between the employees because all of them were in one place, right?

THE WITNESS: Right. I mean, we could have theoretically left the customer care center in St. Louis and entered the orders directly into SAP and function like we do today but we chose to bring that all into Omaha.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So even if the customer service center had stayed in St. Louis and you had implemented this new computer programming, those jobs would still have been obsolete in Omaha?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So the move really didn't have anything to do with it?

THE WITNESS: Right. It was just a timing thing. It happened at the same time.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. The -- it was the computer software that made that job obsolete?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And now the only communication that is necessary is between your customer service people and the materials people to make sure that shipping and everything -- all the orders are getting processed properly?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Per the customer's desires?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now I just want to make sure and I think you testified to this but it was still a little confusing from the time it came from your counsel and then from the Union.

The asset management was handled by Lucent employees in St. Louis and contracted additionally out of Philadelphia with some Dun & Bradstreet employees?

THE WITNESS: No, when we -- let me clarify that.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: The asset management group in St. Louis were Lucent employees. When we became Avaya, we chose to contract that outside of Avaya.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Oh, okay.

THE WITNESS: And so that went into Dun & Bradstreet.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So at some point Dun & Bradstreet was handling it all for Avaya?

THE WITNESS: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Even though Lucent had handled it in house and then when you brought this to Omaha, you decided to do some of it in house in Omaha?

THE WITNESS: We just decided last December to take on these particular accounts that were -- and functions that were giving us problems from Dun & Bradstreet, bring them in house, try to get them in order.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And do you anticipate -- I know you have said that Terri will go back to the customer service representative function when that account -- that one particular account is in order. What about the two other employees?

THE WITNESS: The will stay in asset management.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So you are continuing -- anticipating continuing asset management in house?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now I notice -- and I am probably throwing a monkey wrench into everything and you tell me if you don't know because maybe the Union or someone else will be telling me about this but I am looking at the tiered employees and I see two job classifications in Tier 4 and Tier 5 called financial analysts, and they work out of the financial department or financial corridor. Do you have any idea what those employees do?

THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge of that.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right. And you said that there were tier employees in your building daily? Are they in the customer care center area daily or are they in other parts of the building or why would there be tiered employees in your building daily?

THE WITNESS: They may come and talk to one of the customer service reps about one of the orders that they are trying to work on and ask them questions face to face rather than going to email and --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So these would be those materials handlers --

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- the planners that we were talking about earlier?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And how often would you estimate that these unit employees might come to the customer care center to deal with one of your employees face to face as opposed to by phone or email?

THE WITNESS: We might see one or two a day.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: Of the 40-some people.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And the tiered employees that took the jobs in the customer care center, were they from the materials planner positions generally?

THE WITNESS: They were from the material planners and some from what we were calling the customer service group in Omaha.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Okay. So both of those groups?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And how much approximately do your customers -- I know there are 1's and 2's and 3's, but what is the salary range for a customer service representative?

THE WITNESS: Between $35-and-$55,000.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Somebody will have to do the math for me. Do you know how that compares materials management analyst 4 or 5 at all? I know that I am looking at Article 10 of the contract and -- somebody can do the math other than us but I see right now that they are between $17 and $25 an hour?

MR. KING: That is $35-to-$50,000.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right.

And your employees are also eligible for overtime compensation, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: The A-2's are.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. The A-2's. Okay. A-3's and A-4's are not?

THE WITNESS: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Any redirect?

MR. NOLAN: Just a couple of follow-up questions, if I may.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Wait -- before -- let me ask, do you have a break area for your employees? Do they have their own break area? Where do they take their breaks?

THE WITNESS: Typically they are right there in the area. We have a little kitchen within Building 51 with a microwave and that kind of thing so that they can take a break in that area.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Is that available to other employees as well? That break area or is that specific to the customer care center?

THE WITNESS: No, it is open.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Bathrooms, I assume, the same sort of thing?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: Just a could of follow up questions and you, too, will be free, for now, at least.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, on cross-examination by Union counsel, you were asked whether the movement from tiered position into a customer care center position -- why is that deemed a promotion and I believe you said that is the general perception.

Let me ask you this, is that movement voluntary?

A Yes.

Q So the individuals listed on E-10 who are now in the customer care center who were promoted from the tiered universe, they accepted those positions voluntarily?

A Yes.

Q One more time, just because there is a little ambiguity, asset management, who, what and where. I am going to try this chronologically.

Prior to October 1st, 2001, when Avaya was part of Lucent, was the asset management piece done in house by Lucent employees?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Post -- so that -- and physically that was done in St. Louis?

A Yes.

Q Okay. So in the summer of 2000 when the customer care center comes to Omaha, asset management work doesn't come to Omaha?

A That is correct.

Q It stays with Lucent employees in St. Louis?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And by the way I said October 1st, 2001. I meant October 1st, 2000.

So October 1st, 2000, comes along. Avaya is now free from Lucent. Who is doing the asset management work for this portion of the Avaya business?

A The Lucent people did for a short period of time and it was transitioned to Dun & Bradstreet. I think it was complete by December of that year.

Q Okay. And, in fact, are you familiar with what we call the transition period from October --

A Right.

Q -- through December of 2000?

A Yes, it would have been in that period.

Q And that was the time during which although Avaya was separate from Lucent there was still Lucent doing a lot of Avaya functions and vice versa?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. So during the transition period, the work is transitioned from Lucent personnel in St. Louis to Dun & Bradstreet employees we think working in Pennsylvania?

A Yes.

Q From that point through December of 2001, do any Avaya employees perform the asset management piece of the customer care center?

A No.

Q So there was never a simultaneous asset management function, if you will, with Avaya employees and Dun & Bradstreet employees?

A Not prior to December.

Q All right. Now we are to December, 2001, and we have created the asset management piece of your organization.

Does Dun & Bradstreet from December, 2001, have any involvement in asset management?

A Yes.

Q So it is -- going forward there is a current handling of asset management by both your folks in Omaha and people with Dun & Bradstreet in Pennsylvania.

Q I think we got it. Okay. Now referring to the employee formerly known as Terrio who I am sure she is happy to know should she be interested in these proceedings we have clarified her name. Referring to Terri --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I have been thinking of Denny Tario for sometime.

MR. NOLAN: Could well have been and I am thinking of Capezios and we don't even want to got there.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: With respect to Terri and her move into asset management, I believe you testified on cross-examination that she received sufficient training to do what she was required to do on a sort of on-the-job basis, is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Has she been fully trained in all the responsibilities of the asset management organization?

A Definitely not.

Q Is she capable of handling all the responsibilities of the asset management organization at this point?

A No.

Q Recognizing this calls for some speculation on your part, how long do you anticipate it would take to get her trained to the level that she could -- get her trained to a point where she could handle all the responsibilities of asset management organization?

Q So would it be fair to say, based upon that, that she is at least six to twelve months behind so to speak the other individuals in the asset management organization in terms of training, at a minimum?

A Yes.

Q And is it -- well, rather than me put words in your mouth, why don't you tell me -- what is the gap between the two individuals in asset management in terms of what they can handle and what Terri can handle to the extent you can qualify that gap?

A Specifically handling the other transactions, understanding the cash op, debits, credits and those kinds of things. She is just managing one small piece of the discrete process rather than the more complex financial transactions.

Q Now the customer care center is located in Omaha. Do you have an opinion as to whether it can function successfully -- could it -- do you have an opinion as to whether it could function successfully if it were located somewhere else?

A Yes, it could function.

Q It could?

A Yes.

Q And why is that?

A As long as we would have access to the same systems that we have today, we could still enter the sales orders, we could process the customer phone calls, we could make the contacts for pricing information that we need, we could use email and phone to continue to talk to the planners.

Q Okay. Now is there any portion of the customer service work, specifically the order processing, that your people in the customer care center are now doing that wasn't done in St. Louis, as far as you know?

A Not as far as I know.

MR. NOLAN: That is it.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Last bite of the apple.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. KING: You made reference to Terri Pitschmann, and you said it would take six to twelve months to properly train for asset management?

A Um-hmm.

Q Prior to that, and through the chronology of where asset management has been and how it has been in Omaha, your testimony was it got to Omaha in December of 2001?

A Yes.

Q Do we have anyone fully trained in asset management of the three people that are there?

A Michelle is probably the farthest along. Monique is a little less than that. Monique I wouldn't say was fully trained.

Q Asset management is done by on-the-job training, is that right?

A Yes.

Q Okay. So -- okay -- you testified that the customer care center could be located somewhere else. I'm curious. Are there advantages to being in Omaha?

A I think it is an advantage to be able to walk out on the production floor and see that the products that you are talking about and maybe how they are going together. That would be an advantage of being here in Omaha.

Q You talked about the movement to management is voluntary. Do you know what number of Union employees, tiered employees, applied for the open position?

A No, I don't.

Q For those that accepted it, it was voluntary and apparently deemed it a promotion -- felt it was a promotion?

A Yes.

Q But there may be others who didn't wish to apply?

A That could be, yes.

MR. KING: Thank you. Nothing more.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Thank you very much.

MR. NOLAN: One -- one --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: No, no, no. We have all had --

MR. NOLAN: I do have one follow-up question that is in response to something that --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Well, we have had redirect -- we have had --

MR. NOLAN: I certainly have a right to follow up on an issue raised on recross. I mean, that is --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: No, I don't think that there is necessarily a right to have continuing cross, redirect, recross, re-redirect. I think at some point -- I'll allow it this time but next time there is no re-redirect. I mean, no surrebuttal, no -- I mean, you know, this is -- this is not -- you know, it could go on forever.

MR. NOLAN: I understand.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

MR. NOLAN: And it really is -- and I appreciate your indulgence. It is really one question.

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Gretchen, getting back to what you were just asked with respect to the on-the-job training that the asset management people are receiving as they go, I believe you testified that that training is sufficient to allow them to do the job and I am just curious, is that because they have a pre-existing financial background?

A I would say that is a fair assumption because of the analytical background and such that Michelle has, for example, that put her further ahead than somebody that does not have that background.

MR. NOLAN: That is all. Thank you.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. You're excused.

Off the record.

(Off the record.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: On the record.

Okay. Are you ready for your next witness?

MR. NOLAN: I am. The Company calls Marcia Grothe, please. Actually I think I might have offended my witness because I think it is Grothe.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Grothe.

MR. NOLAN: And I doubled the damage right there. Which means I'll let her spell it for the reporter.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Raise your right hand, please.

Whereupon,

MARCIA GROTHE,

having first been duly sworn, was called as a witness and examined and testified as follows:

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Have a seat.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Marcia, who do you currently work for?

A Chuck Meyers or I should say Avaya Inc.

Q We will get to that. And how long have you worked for Avaya or its predecessors?

A Seventeen years.

Q What is your current position with Avaya?

A Senior manager, materials management.

Q And who do you report to? I think you testified already?

A Chuck Meyers.

Q Okay. Start you off with an organization chart here and I believe we are up to E-11 or is it 12?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: 13.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. More trees.

(Employer Exhibit 13 marked for identification.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. Marcia, could you take a look at what we have marked for identification purposes as Employer's Exhibit No. 13. Do you recognize this document?

A Yes, I do.

Q Can you describe it please?

A It is my organizational chart for materials management.

Q Now you may have in front of you -- if you don't, I'll give it to you again -- Employer's Exhibit No. 1? Is that up there in front of you?

A No.

Q I'll show you. I'll show you what is already in evidence as Employer's Exhibit No. 1 which is the entire Connectivity Solutions organizational chart on a higher level and could you just place E-13 in E-1, that is, where do you fit in on the bigger picture?

A I report directly to Chuck Meyers.

Q Okay.

A So I fit right under there.

Q Okay. And up in through Ray Swartz?

A Right.

MR. NOLAN: Offer E-13, please.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: None.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 13 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Marcia, what are your -- let's back up a second. Why don't you describe for us, if you will, what the materials management organization does within Connectivity Solutions?

A There are two pieces to it: the inventory administration and the material planning. Material planning is responsible for the execution of the production plan through the scheduling of material on the shop floor as well the procurement of material.

The inventory administrators are responsible to monitor the accuracy of the inventory on the shop floor.

MR. NOLAN: Are we -- are you guys hearing okay because I am --

COURT REPORTER: I am picking her up.

MR. NOLAN: Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: You might want to speak up. We turned off all the -- these do not amplify. We turned off all the amplification because it was messing with the recording devices.

THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.

MR. NOLAN: So if you would just speak up.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Just scream.

THE WITNESS: Yell?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yeah.

MR. NOLAN: Sure.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: And what are your responsibilities as a senior manager for materials management organization?

A My responsibility is to supervise the performance of the execution of the plan and the inventory accuracy on the shop floor.

Q Okay. Why don't you -- getting back to exactly what materials management is here at Avaya -- why don't you describe in a little more detail how material management fits in with what Connectivity Solutions does in terms of producing goods?

A It begins with a forecast that is developed by the sales team in what we call the PS&M, which is the product line management group. They develop a forecast on what they believe that we will be selling over the next year.

That is provided to the global demand planners. They take that information and create a production plan. That production plan is electronically -- this is all electronically through SAP -- transmitted to the MRP controller or the material planner or the Tier -- I mean, those are all synonymous.

That is electronically passed over to that group and then it is their responsibility to make sure that they procure the raw material to support that plan. They schedule the production on the shop floor.

Q Okay. Now in your organization of materials management, are there what we have been referring to as tiered employees?

A Yes.

Q And approximately how many?

A Approximately 48.

Q And those employees are what -- under contract what are referred to as materials management analysts?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Why don't you explain in -- with some level of detail what their specific role in the materials management process is and how they perform that role?

A They use SAP and they receive the information, again from the global demand planners, which creates -- which is the production plan that creates a forecast and through a piece within SAP, which is called MRP, it does an explosion of the requirements all the way down through the bill of material.

And what the MRP controller is responsible to do is to make sure that they procure the material to support the plan that is developed by the global demand planners.

Q And how do they do that?

A They do it within SAP. They will convert a planned order, which is recommended by SAP, into a production order if it is to be manufactured on the shop floor.

If it is to be procured on the outside, they convert a planned order to a purchase requisition.

Q Okay. What is entailed in converting that order?

A It is a transaction within SAP, it is just a transaction that they perform within SAP.

Q Is it akin to really a data processing function?

A Yes, it is.

Q Okay. So the materials management analysts are actually -- they are monitoring the process through SAP and they are -- they are moving things through SAP and as -- you know, in as basic terms as I can think of -- is that accurate?

A Yes.

Q And we have already gotten some testimony regarding SAP, but why don't you give a little more detail as to what SAP's role in the materials management process is, that is, how do we use SAP to facilitate materials management?

A Well, SAP -- the piece within SAP that we use most frequently is called MRP and that is materials requirements planning. And that is where you take the demand from the end item and you do a full explosion through a bill of material.

Through that bill of material, it establishes how much of each of the components you need in order to produce that end item.

And so what the MRP controllers do is make sure that all those individual pieces that are required to produce the end item are procured in time to make that product when the customer needs it.

Q Okay. And for clarification purposes, you are saying MRP controllers which I believe we have already established is another term used for the materials management analysts, is that correct?

A Yes.

Q Is that synonymous with planners?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Now are you familiar with the -- the non-represented title of inventory administrator?

A Yes.

Q Do you have inventory administrators in your organization?

A Yes.

Q How many?

A One supervisor, five administrators.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Are those the people over on the left-hand side of the document at E-13?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: And just so we are clear -- so you said the one supervisor and that is Todd Perchal who is listed on the org chart here in the left-hand corner?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And then the five people under him are the inventory administrators?

A Yes.

Q Showing you what I am asking to be marked for identification purposes as Employer 14 -- would you take a look at that, please?

(Employer Exhibit 14 marked for identification.)

A Um-hmm.

MR. NOLAN: Mr. Tim, our labor relations person just raised a good point. Early in the proceedings I believe the Union represented that it is seeking the inclusion of the inventory administrator position and I think we -- or at least they suggested there are six individuals in that title.

I am wondering if we need to revisit that in light of this org chart and to kind of correlate that, I am wondering if they perceive Todd Perchal as a potential unit employee.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Let's see.

MR. KING: Five is the correct number. And Todd Perchal is out and the other five is as we said.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. So if we could stipulate that the Union is seeking inventory administrators, Cyndi Stastny, Chuck Leyendecker, Clayton Heavican, Chris Walker and Linda Lawrence? Would you so stipulate?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And that the parties are in agreement that Todd Perchal is a supervisor as defined in the Act. He has the authority to hire, fire, discipline or effectively recommend such actions?

MR. KING: Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Agreed.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I'll accept that stipulation.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay, Marcia, looking at the document which we have marked as E-14, do you recognize this document?

A Yes.

Q Can you tell us what it is?

A Yes, it is the job description for an inventory administrator.

Q Okay. Anticipating, I am sure someone's question, that title, inventory administrator is handwritten and then there is a formal printed title, Inventory Control Analyst III. Are you familiar with that title?

A Yes.

Q And what is the difference?

A No difference. There are synonymous.

Q Okay. Would it be fair to say that Inventory Control Analyst III is an official HR title whereas inventory administrator is what we call these folks?

A Yes.

Q Using this job description as your guide, if you would please, Marcia, could you explain for us exactly what the inventory administrator does in the materials management organization?

A Yes, they are responsible for monitoring the accuracy of the inventory on the shop floor and they do that through what is called random cycle counts and they select products to inventory based upon the volume of business that is done on that product.

They identify which com codes, or part numbers, are going to be cycle counted. They enlist the assistance of shop operating personnel to count it and then it is their responsibility, if there is a discrepancy between what SAP says and what is physically on the floor, it is their responsibility to determine the reason for that discrepancy.

Q That last point, determining a reason for discrepancy. How do they go about doing that?

A Well, they check through all the different transactions that have occurred in SAP to try to determine if one of them was not processed properly. They check the bill of material to see if perhaps the bill is incorrect, that they are using it differently, check receivables to see if a transaction wasn't processed properly, work with operating to see if they are using it in a different method than what they are supposed to be using. So they research it -- extensively research it through SAP.

Q It sounds like their knowledge of SAP then is pretty extensive, is that accurate?

A It has to be very extensive.

Q And why is that?

A Because you have to fully understand all the interactions of the transactions within SAP before you make any adjustment. Any adjustment that is made by the inventory administrators goes right to the bottom line and affects the profitability of the Company.

Q Do the inventory administrators have -- is their any sort of training component to their job? And by that I mean not training which they require, which we will talk about that, but do they conduct any training internally?

A Yes, they do.

Q What sort of training do they conduct?

A They conduct training for both the MRP controller as well as shop operating. And they also do training for management, too.

Q Okay. When you say shop operating, you are referring to the hourly production and maintenance employees?

A Yes.

Q Okay.

A Not just maintenance but operating also.

Q Okay. But the represented employees on the hourly side, the hourly unit?

A Yes.

Q Okay. So just to clarify then, the inventory administrators are training Union employees in both the Union at issue here, correct?

A Yes.

Q As well as the other Union?

A Yes.

Q And you also said non-represented employees?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Could you just specify what sort of training they are providing to those three groups of employees?

A The two represented universes, they do training which is called ZRP 1 and that is our delivery process. When a product is complete, you do a delivery and that is called a ZRP 1. So they instruct them on how to do that, how it is done, and why it is so important to be done.

Q Okay. What sort of hours, if you will, would a material planner -- what sort of hours by a material planner could lead to an inventory discrepancy?

A If they don't watch the production order properly. For example, if a product is going to be substituted on the shop floor, and if they don't make that change on the production order, then when the delivery is done, the wrong components are going to be decremented from inventory and the material will be wrong.

Q And the inventory administrator would take an error like that and correct it?

A Yes.

Q Now how does -- and you have given some of this and now I am going to ask it more specifically. How does the inventory administrator's role in the inventory discrepancy correction process compare with that of your represented folks, that is your -- your material planners?

A Could you explain that further?

Q Sure. You explained that inventory discrepancies -- that is pretty much the inventory administrators' livelihood is resolving those things, correct?

A Right.

Q Okay. And I think you suggested that some of the represented folks, the planners, are involved in the resolution of inventory discrepancies, is that correct?

A They actually do the data input. If the discrepancy is such that we can't find the reason for it and all you can do write it off the books, then that information is given to a tiered person in materials management and they actually enter the data into the system.

Q Okay. So do the tiered employees have any substantive role -- by substantive I mean beyond data entry in the resolution of inventory discrepancies?

A No, they do not.

Q And your answer I take it assumes that -- would that be the same answer if I said, what about planners?

A Yes, it would be the same answer.

Q Okay. And just to clarify, the planner's role in the resolution of inventory discrepancies is more of a clerical nature?

A That is correct.

Q Now I notice on Employer's Exhibit 14, the job description for inventory administrator, it does say requires a bachelor's degree or equivalent. Are all your inventory administrators college graduates?

A Yes, they are.

Q All right. Starting with the educational requirements and taking it from there, why don't you explain to me what qualifications the inventory administrator position requires?

A Well, they have to have excellent communication skills, both from a verbal and written standpoint. They have to have a very strong understanding of SAP and understanding of RF navigator as well as extensive analytical knowledge.

Q By the way, can you estimate of your approximately 48 I think you have said tiered employees what percentage have college degrees or what number?

A I would guess around six to ten at the most.

Q How would you compare the level of SAP expertise of the inventory administrators versus that of the tiered employees in your organization?

A The inventory administrators require a much broader scope of SAP knowledge than the MRP controller does.

Q And you might have already spoken to this but why is that?

A It is because the information that you have to glean off the system in order to make your adjustments to inventory. The MRP controller's universe is predominantly around the procurement and the scheduling in the shop.

The inventory administrator needs to know the financial part of it. They need to know the different batch sessions that feed into SAP, how they are processed. They need to know the bill of material extensively, routing, all the different data within SAP that normally an MRP controller wouldn't be exposed to.

Q You earlier testified that verbal and written communication skills are critical for the inventory administrator position. Why is that?

A Well, first of all, communication verbally would be they are dealing with all different facets of the organization. They are conducting training sessions so verbally they have to be able to communicate well.

As far as written, a lot of business is conducted via email or memos and they have to be able to write those adequately.

Q The inventory administrators, is -- do they have -- are they required to be particularly self sufficient?

A Yes, they are.

Q And why is that?

A Because they pretty much work on their own. They -- we tell them what needs to be cycle counted and from there it is their responsibility to go out and get the product inventoried and to determine what the reason is for the adjustment, the difference, I should say.

Q And how would you compare the inventory administrators' level of self sufficiency with that of the tiered employees in your organization?

A There is no comparison. The inventory administrators function almost entirely on their own while the MRP controller works under the direction of a supervisor.

Q And you also -- well, maybe you didn't testify to this -- is there any level of leadership skills required for the inventory administrator position?

A Yes, there is. Part of their process is to determine the reason why the errors are and then to take the steps to correct that root cause and so that means getting the right people together, identifying the flaw in the process, establishing a new procedure and making sure that it is implemented.

Q Now -- and looking at the org chart, it appears that the inventory administrators don't supervise anyone in the traditional sense but do they assign tasks throughout the organization?

A Yes, they would assign to the MRP controller a task to adjust the inventory once they have completed their cycle count.

Q So once the -- just so I make sure we understand this --once the inventory administrator completes the analytical portion of the discrepancy resolution process, they then instruct a represented employee to do the data entry side?

A That is correct.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Just let me make sure. There is no contention that these people are supervisors within the meaning of the Act?

MR. NOLAN: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: No?

MR. NOLAN: Right.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. And just so we are clear on that, Marcia, the inventory administrators don't traditionally supervise people? They don't hire, fire, discipline and those sorts of things, do they?

THE WITNESS: That is correct. They don't.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. But they delegate work?

A They delegate work to the MRP controller but --

Q Well, if an MRP controller doesn't do the work correctly, it is that controller's supervisor's problem in terms of dealing with that employee?

A That would be correct.

Q About how long have you --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: May I just make a question here then? So any assignment of work is a part of this individual's job -- in the work process, the flow? It is not that you are saying that this assignment of work is with independent judgment necessary that would make them supervisory in nature under the Act?

MR. NOLAN: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: But they do delegate tasks to whichever planner happens to be the appropriate planner for that particular job, correct?

A Correct.

Q Okay. And how long have we had the inventory administrator title here in Omaha?

A Since November of 1999.

Q Okay. Could you just kind of give us a little history of the position, why it came into existence and that sort of thing?

A Sure. Under an ERP system like SAP, inventory is absolutely critical so it was deemed that it was a requirement to add inventory administrators whose responsibility was to monitor the inventory accuracy on the floor, identify where there are flaws in either the master data or the processes, establish corrective measures and then implement that.

Q It sounds like this position sort of mirrors implementation of SAP or follows it shortly thereafter? Is that the case?

A Yes.

Q And it also sounds like there is a correlation? Why do -- is there?

A Yes.

Q And why did the implementation of SAP trigger the need for the inventory administrators then?

A Because in SAP it is very critical that the inventory be accurate because that is what we use to do all our planning against.

Q Okay. Let's try it this way. Prior to the implementation of SAP, why didn't we need an inventory administrator function?

A It wasn't a fully integrated system where all the information was important to all facets of the business.

Q And if you could -- and feel free to refer to E-13 -- could you please tell us where the inventory administrators came from prior to their joining your organization?

A Sure. Two of them were a lateral transfer in materials management already.

Q Just so we are clear, which two?

A That would be Cyndi and Chuck. And then two were contract employees and that is Clayton and Chris and they were initially hired as contract employees to do inventory administration. They are now permanent Avaya employees.

And the last one, Linda Lawrence, came out of the represented universe.

Q Okay. Focusing on the two that were lateral transfers -- I'm sorry -- where did you say they transferred from?

A Cyndi was in materials management. I believe Chuck's last position was in materials management. He was an operating supervisor also.

Q Okay. And that was my next question. What did they do in materials management? They weren't represented folks, were they?

A No, they were not.

Q Okay. Were they supervisory?

A Cyndi was what we call the global demand planner and --

Q And was that a supervisory position?

A No, it is a management position.

Q Okay.

A And Chuck Leyendecker, he was in materials management. I can't specifically speak to what function he did. Prior to that, he was an operating supervisor.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Do you mean in manufacturing, like on the floor --

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- type supervisor?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. But he wasn't a supervisor in materials management?

THE WITNESS: I can't answer that.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Now -- and Linda Lawrence, I believe you indicated, was a represented employee?

A Yes.

Q Prior to becoming an inventory administrator?

A Yes.

Q Represented as in what the tiered employees or as in a production employee?

A Production.

Q So what we generally refer to as the hourly employees?

A Yes.

Q She worked in the shop?

A Yes.

Q So then none of these folks -- and I think I asked you this and I apologize -- but none of these folks came directly from the tiered universe?

A That is correct.

Q And I take it -- well, let me ask you -- has -- have the inventory administrators -- has that title rather ever been represented by the Union?

A No.

Q Have unit employees ever done work like what the inventory administrators are now doing?

A No.

Q Where do the inventory administrators physically work?

A There are three areas. One out in the area called EW&C, or electronic wire and cable. There's a couple in the IPL management office area and a couple out in the ICS or the integrated cabinet area.

Q So the five of them it sounds like are dispersed over three general locations?

A Yes.

Q And that -- does that correlate with the particular line of business they support?

A That is correct.

Q Do they have offices or cubes?

A They are in cubes.

Q Okay. Are they location wise segregated from the represented employees in your organization?

A Yes.

Q How so?

A They are in separate areas.

Q Okay. And is there -- well, do they interact with the represented folks on a regular basis throughout the course of the day?

A Yes.

Q In person or otherwise?

A In person, email, phone.

Q And just kind of running through some of this stuff, I take it that the inventory administrators are considered what we have been referring to as management employees for purposes of Avaya compensation and benefits?

A Yes.

Q Okay. So, you know, doing this as quickly as possible, the testimony we have already heard about the Avaya performance management platform, this short-term incentive plan, the salary merit increase and the force management program, those four Avaya policies for management employees are also applicable to the inventory administrators?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And I think we had testimony that Todd Perchal supervises the inventory administrators, correct?

A Yes.

Q Does he supervise any represented employees?

A No.

Q Do the inventory administrators perform a significant amount of data entry type functions?

A No, not significant, no.

Q Okay. To the extent they perform data entry, how would you qualify that?

A Well, they will go in and inquire within the system. They will process BDC sessions so -- but not mundane data entry if that is what you are referring to, no, they don't.

Q Have you ever had any discussions with any Union representatives regarding the inventory administrators' possible performing of data entry?

A Yes.

Q Could you just explain what the issue was that you addressed with the Union?

A Yes. I met with Cory on two different occasions. The issue was that the actual data entry that was performed when an adjustment needed to be made belonged in the tiered universe. I agreed with her, that actual data entry function only belonged in the tiered universe.

At that point in time, we agreed to have that function come from the inventory administrators and have the tiered universe actually do it. And we did go ahead and implement that and that is currently being done.

Q Rough time frame, when did these discussions take place?

A Probably began about a year ago.

Q All right. And to the extent that there has been -- you have reached some resolution on this, about when was that?

A We reached resolution right away. However, we failed to implement it as quickly as it should have been. Cory had to come back to me about six months later and say, no, you didn't do what you committed to.

We then at that time made sure it happened and I continue to monitor that every couple of months to make sure that they continue to do what Cory and I agreed to.

Q Okay. As far as you know --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Who is Cory?

THE WITNESS: Cory is the Union president.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Oh, okay. What is Cory's last name, do you know?

THE WITNESS: Cory?

MS. AESOPH-MANGIARUCA: It is Aesoph-Mangiaruca.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Could you spell that, please?

MS. AESOPH-MANGIARUCA: A-e-s-o-p-h - M-a-n-g-i-a-r-u-c-a.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. I must say that every name in this hearing is the strangest name I have ever seen. It seems like everybody has very unusual names.

MR. NOLAN: I can --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Have you noticed that on these organizational charts? I can barely pronounce anyone's name.

MR. NOLAN: Yeah.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Must be Oklahoma -- I am still in Oklahoma -- it must be Nebraska, huh?

Q BY MR. NOLAN: And as far as you know, Marcia, is the Union -- although they may not have been, are they now satisfied with the resolution of the issue of inventory administrators performing data entry functions?

A To my knowledge, yes.

MR. NOLAN: Nothing further.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Cross?

MR. KING: Yes.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. KING: I hope you are the appropriate person. You have talked quite a bit about SAP, can you tell us just briefly what is the function of SAP?

A SAP is an integrated software system that helps us manage our business from quote to cash so all the business processes between the point of a customer quoting to the point of us ringing the cash register at the close of the sales order is managed within SAP.

Q And this is a corporate wide system for Avaya, is that --

A To the best of my knowledge, yes.

Q Okay. And it is in essence a database for everything?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And when you talk about -- so that means outside of materials management there are a lot of people that are going to interface with SAP?

A Yes.

Q And when you talk about the only -- let me rephrase that -- that the planners do the data entry for it, that is only for the materials management function of it?

A Yes.

Q And then when you talk about the inventory administrators, you said their job was to pull up a -- to initiate and lead a random a cycle count. What exactly does that entail?

A What we do is we stratify our inventory based upon the number of times the item is used times the cost and for those that are high stratification we inventory -- try to cycle to count those four times a year; the next group is three times a year and the lowest group is once a year.

So what they do is randomly select those com codes that fall into that stratification and then they go out to the operating floor and request that the operating personnel actually physically count it and then give us back that count.

We then compare that to the balance in SAP and if there is a difference, then we have to identify the reason for the difference.

Q So when you state that he -- that the individual initiates and monitors these random cycle counts, in essence, he is requesting a report from SAP and then following up on actions after that?

A I wouldn't make it that simple.

Q You wouldn't? Okay.

A No.

Q When was SAP put into place?

A The last piece was implemented in November of 1999. I think the first piece was April of '98, or November of '98 -- November of '98.

Q And was your testimony that these jobs resulted as a -- these jobs came about as a result of the implementation of SAP?

A Yes.

Q Okay. You talked about the duties of the inventory administrators in training planners and shop employees. What percentage of their time is spent training?

A About 10 to 15 on a formal basis. On an informal, they probably do it daily.

Q But they spend roughly one day a week in classroom training -- between half a day to -- half to three-quarters of a day in classroom training?

A Well, 10 percent wouldn't be --

Q Ten percent would be half a day.

A That might be a little -- no, probably less than that in a formal classroom.

Q They spend less than 10 percent doing training?

A Yes.

Q Okay.

A Formal training.

Q Formal training. I just -- I was going to object to something and you answered rather quickly. The question was, what sort of errors by the planners would cause discrepancies.

We are not stating that all the errors are made by the planners, or are we stating that all the errors that are made are by the planners?

A No.

Q Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. You talked about the training, the skills that are required for the inventory administrative positions. Are you aware of any of the tiered training programs?

A For SAP or in general?

Q Are you aware of training programs for the tiered employees?

A Yes.

Q Do you know, do they have -- as far as classes, do they have anything on communications?

A I believe so.

Q And analytical knowledge?

A I don't believe that is a class.

Q Is that something that for the inventory administrators, for the candidates for that job, do you test them or measure that in some way?

A No.

Q When asked about the -- to compare the inventory administrative knowledge of SAP of that of the planners, you said there is no comparison. Did I state that correctly?

A Yes.

Q I don't wish to -- do you make a distinction between knowledge and proficiency when it comes to using this computer system?

A I don't understand your question.

Q When you state that the individuals, there is no comparison, is that due in part at least to the fact that the inventory administrators are required to use the system more often than the tiered employees?

A No, it is the number of transactions and the general knowledge that the inventory administrator has as opposed to the MRP controller. The MRP controller works with just a slice of it while the inventory administrator has to understand the financial piece, the engineering piece, the MRP piece, the receiving piece, the MRP piece, the receiving piece. They have to understand the purchasing piece to some degree.

Q And the Company has chosen to give training on those modules to the inventory administrators but not to the tiered employees for business needs?

A Right.

Q You mentioned that the tiered employees work under the direction of the supervisor and it was your, I believe, testimony at all times, or --

A No.

Q Are there times when tiered employees work other than Monday through Friday -- are there times when tiered employees work without direct supervision?

A Yes.

Q Okay. But they are not working under the direction of the inventory administrators? We are talking the other supervisors on the org chart? We are talking the supervisors on the org chart?

A Yes.

Q Okay. You talked about a dispute that was brought about by the Union in regards to management performing bargaining unit work?

A Um-hmm.

Q Was the discussion limited only at that time to data entry?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And you said you reached an agreement but there was still a problem six months later? How did that occur?

A I gave instruction for that function to roll out and that instruction did not occur.

Q So you gave instruction to the inventory administrators and it needed to be reinforced six months later?

A I gave the direction to the department manager.

Q When you talked about the need for -- when you talked about the initiation of SAP resulting in the need for the inventory administrator position and the need to make corrections to inventory discrepancies, that work certainly was done prior to SAP, was it not?

A No, we didn't do that. We didn't do that work.

Q There was no inventory control at all? That is too broad a question. There was no formal program to resolve inventory discrepancies?

A On the shop floor? No.

MR. KING: Okay. I have nothing further.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. I have a few questions.

EXAMINATION

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: If you could look at E-13 for me, I just want to verify which employees are unit employees and am I right in my understanding that where it says tier, like where it says Sue McClellan on the left-hand side under Todd --

THE WITNESS: Lugn.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Lugn. She is a Tier V MRP controller, and that is a unit position, correct?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Anything that says MRP controller or Tier V MRP controller is a unit position, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: All right. So then I go up here and I see a person named Christy Thornsen, secretary, is that a unit position as well?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And over on the right-hand side I see a person named Scott Blackwell, inventory special assignment. Is that a unit position?

THE WITNESS: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And there is no contention that it should be or -- I mean, that is a non-unit position, has always been?

MR. KING: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: The Union would agree to that?

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And then I see there is a Tracy Boyce, Tier III, packet administration. That is also a unit position?

THE WITNESS: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Now I guess I -- I want to make sure I understand this inventory system that you have. I understand that now you have a computer software program that allows you to spot check your inventory for -- to be more accurate, is that correct? That is what this SAP does is allows you to spot check inventory, make sure that your inventory is accurate, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: SAP and the software doesn't allow you to do that. That is a requirement in order to maintain accurate information.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now you said that on the shop floor there was never an inventory control program. There was never any inventory control done with Lucent or Avaya prior to utilizing SAP?

THE WITNESS: On the shop floor as far as cycle counting -- formal cycle counting program, no.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: How was inventory controlled in the past?

THE WITNESS: I am not sure I understand your question.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: How did you track inventory in the past before having SAP?

THE WITNESS: It was in our legacy system which was called AMAPS --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: But there was no formal cycle counting program to manage it.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. How was inventory controlled under this legacy program? What did you do in terms of inventory? How did you -- did you count it once a year? Did you --

THE WITNESS: Yes, once a year the financial department did.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So that the difference with SAP is you do these cycle counts, random cycle counts?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. That allows you to have a more accurate inventory and keep your bottom line better?

THE WITNESS: It allows you to identify where your problems are and it --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: -- and take corrective action to make sure it doesn’t continue to occur.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now when you did your annual inventory, that was the financial department that did that?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. With the help of the shop department, I take it? I mean, it was they who actually counted piece by piece, I take it?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now I take it also that the SAP program changed the jobs of the MRP controllers as well?

THE WITNESS: It didn't change the -- what they were required to do. It changed the tool that they used.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. They are now required to use the SAP program as well in performance of their job?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Is that correct?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. And the SAP program allows them to -- when you say procure -- they procure the inventory for a particular part of a job -- how is it broken down? I mean, do they get it in weekly segments? Okay, here is what we are going to need for the week; here is what we are going to need for the day? How do they get here is what we are going to need for this particular job for this particular customer? How is it broken down?

THE WITNESS: All of the above.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Okay. And so like a particular controller may be assigned to a particular customer and their needs for a particular period of time or --

THE WITNESS: No, not a customer, a product line.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: A product line?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And so they will get -- they get from these global planners they get what they are supposed to do off of SAP for a weekly period; a daily period? I don't quite get that.

THE WITNESS: It comes over in a weekly bucket.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And they then make sure that they, on the computer program, procure enough inventory -- enough materials -- raw materials -- to make sure -- and the time of the shop people -- to get the job done in the allotted time?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And so it is important for them to have the inventory in hand, correct? I mean, to be able to procure that, the procured inventory has to be there?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Is that part of the inventory control, to make sure that you have sufficient inventory or just to make sure that the inventory is -- is being accurately --

THE WITNESS: It is the MRP controller's responsibility to procure enough material to build the product.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now let me ask you about that. When you talk about procuring inventory or procuring raw materials, is it materials that are already in Avaya's possession and that they are just like paper procuring them for the job or do they literally -- when they punch their buttons, are they procuring raw materials from a vendor?

THE WITNESS: They create what is called a purchase requisition.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: And then that goes over to the buyer and he creates the purchase order which goes out to a supplier.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right.

THE WITNESS: And then the material is shipped into Avaya.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And that happens on a regular basis, that they create these purchase orders that then go to the buyer, the GPO department, I guess is what you call that, the global purchasing organization and the buyers then procure those materials and they are shipped to Avaya?

THE WITNESS: But it is not a purchase order that the MRP creates.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: It is a purchase requisition.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. That is probably -- yeah -- it is semantics but, yes, okay. And then do the -- do the material handlers -- they are called so many different things but MRP controllers, planners, have any authority to purchase materials or procure materials on their own from a vendor?

THE WITNESS: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And -- okay. I just want to make sure I understand the location of these MRP controllers. Is there one large room that all computer terminals are sitting in there? Do they have their own cubes? How does that work?

THE WITNESS: Well, they are basically located in two areas.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Um-hmm.

THE WITNESS: And one area is -- it has cubicles and they have their own desk and their own terminal. The other area is out in an office -- office out on the operating floor. Again they have cubicles, their own terminals.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And how -- in what proximity to the inventory control people are these employees' cubicles?

THE WITNESS: For the cabinet people, they are within fairly close proximity. For EW&C and IPL, they are a distance away.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: In fact, they are located in another building.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So the two that are in this other area --

THE WITNESS: The cabinet area?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes. They are close to the unit people? The others are far away?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And the other two were located where?

THE WITNESS: They are in different buildings.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: No, I meant -- there were two other people -- two others? The ones that are in the cabinet area and then the ones that are in the other building and then the -- there are only five of them. Where is the other person?

THE WITNESS: Well, there is one in the cable area. And then there is one in the IPL and the rest are out in the ICS.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Now are these people paid -- are they salaried, hourly?

THE WITNESS: The inventory administrators?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Yes.

THE WITNESS: They are management so they are salaried.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Are they eligible for overtime?

THE WITNESS: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And what is their salary generally?

THE WITNESS: Range from $35,000 to $55,000 -- almost $60,000.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Depending on skill levels?

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: Prior experience.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Okay. Redirect?

MR. NOLAN: I will use my one bite extremely carefully.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Marcia, if you could, please -- you just testified as to the purchase -- is it request -- that the planner would prepare and send over to purchasing?

A Purchasing requisition?

Q Purchasing requisition, okay. And then I believe you testified that someone in the purchasing organization, one of Stan Mason's people, would do the actual purchase order?

A That is correct.

Q Is that correct? Okay. And we might have glossed over that the purchase requisition is the same or essentially the same as a purchase order. Is that, in fact, the case?

A No.

Q Okay. So are there substantive differences?

A Yes.

Q And could you please explain what they are?

A The purchase requisition is just an intent to procure material. Stan's organization actually takes it and then goes out, finds a supplier; as I testified earlier, might establish a contract in order to procure that material.

Q So the planner, that is the represented employee in your organization, would they have any input into where to get the material?

A No.

Q Any input into how much to pay for the material?

A No.

Q Really then would it just be item and quantity?

A And date.

Q And date needed by?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And that is their sole input into the purchasing process?

A Yes.

Q Okay. In response to some questions by Union counsel, you talked about the percentage of time that the inventory administrators spent in formal training versus the everyday informal training that they are conducting. Could you just explain for us what the difference between the two is?

A The formal training would be an actual classroom training and the informal training they conduct almost on a daily basis in that they are meeting with people who interact with SAP and coaching them on ways to perform the function that will not cause a reason for discrepancy in the inventory.

Q So they do actually -- at least for some portion of the week -- conduct classroom training for other employees?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And that was the what you said maybe 10 percent or so?

A Yes, over a year, it is probably 10 percent.

Q Okay.

A In a week, not one day but over a year they probably spend 10 percent of their time.

Q Is it possible then that they do multi-day training sessions periodically?

A Yes.

Q And one final point of clarification, we talked about people from the shop department doing the manual counts of inventory. In the old world, the annual count done at the direction of the finance organization; and in the new world, the count done at the direction of the inventory administrators; when you refer to the shop department employees, are you referring to the tiered employees?

A No.

Q Okay. Those are the Union employees on the production floor?

A Yes.

Q Represented by another Union than the Union that is at issue here?

A Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. And, just finally, I would like to offer Employer's Exhibit 14 which I haven't done yet.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And that is the job description?

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

MR. KING: No objection.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

(Employer Exhibit 14 received into evidence.)

EXAMINATION

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Before you stop, I am going to ask her one more question. That way if you need to, you can -- you testified about conversations you had with the Union president concerning the data input.

Did those conversations in any way -- did you ever have any conversations in that scope -- in the scope of those conversations -- about including the data -- I mean, the inventory control -- inventory administrators in the tiered bargaining unit?

THE WITNESS: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. So it was not raised in any way?

THE WITNESS: No, it wasn't.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. The only issue ever raised was their doing bargaining unit work by inputting data?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right.

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

MR. NOLAN: No.

MR. KING: Nothing further.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you very much.

(Witness excused.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. One more witness?

MR. NOLAN: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Let's go ahead.

MR. NOLAN: The Company calls Marj Garrean, please.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Raise your right hand, please.

Whereupon,

MARJ GARREAN,

having first been duly sworn, was called as a witness and examined and testified as follows:

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Have a seat.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Marj, who do you work for?

A Avaya Inc.

Q And how long have you worked for Avaya or its predecessors?

A Twenty-two years.

Q And what is your current position?

A My current position is senior manager of the SAP new business process team and new and change design.

Q Okay. Let me show you what I am having marked for identification purposes as Employer's Exhibit No. 15. Just take a look at that.

(Employer Exhibit 15 marked for identification.)

A Okay.

Q Are you familiar with this document, Marj?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And what is it?

A It is my organizational chart.

Q And how long have you been the senior manager within this particular organization?

A Almost two years.

Q Okay. Why don't you describe for us, please, what your organization's function is within the overall context of Connectivity Solutions?

And before we do that, let me just for clarity's sake, ask you to look at Employer's Exhibit No. 1, which you don't have.

A Okay. I've got one.

Q If you could just explain for us, Marj, where your organization fits on the higher level org chart that is in evidence as Employer's Exhibit No. 1?

A I report up through Larry Bailey who reports to the blank position that Connie Smith used to hold, so I am right here --

Q Okay.

A -- on the org chart.

Q I think we had some testimony about -- it might have been through Gretchen -- that Larry is now reporting in through Ray Swartz?

A Right.

Q For now? Okay. A question was pending and I am sure we forgot it so let's try again. What does your organization do within the overall context of achieving Connectivity Solutions' objectives?

A My organization has two parts. The first part is the SAP organization. We were responsible for the business analyst side of implementing the SAP system from the dates that other people have mentioned -- back from '97 on.

The other piece of the organization is the new and change design organization. We work the new products introduction process, implementing new projects and products into the manufacturing environment.

Q Okay. And that is what we refer to as the 'new and change' portion of your organization?

A Right. That is correct.

Q And new --

A New products.

Q I gather it is new products. What do we mean by change?

A We also manage the changing of products and the changing of data.

Q Such as when we change product specifications?

A Yes.

Q Okay.

A But mostly, again, it is all to do with the manufacturing of those changes.

Q Okay. The new and change -- well, let's first look at the SAP side. Describe a little more specifically your organization's relationship with SAP, so to speak. I mean, it sounds like you are kind of like the SAP tech support of Connectivity Solutions? Is that a gross over exaggeration or what?

A Well, we are the business side support and a system of this magnitude, and it is very -- it is a very, very large system. It handles the entire Connectivity business, as Marcia explained, not just from quote to cash but also quality plant maintenance, and many other functions in the -- in the Connectivity business.

And so with a system this large and it needs much care and feeding, if you will, we take the business processes that are set up by the other organizations and we make them fit -- we make SAP fit to them or we make them fit to SAP so that we have a computerized mechanism for managing our business.

As you have heard before, there is many cases where we have been able -- because it is an integrated system -- to lessen the workload in many cases, and in many cases to -- to make it more efficient.

And so my team does all that planning. We take all of the finance -- and as you see on my organization chart, I have a finance manager; I have a supply chain manager; I have a sales support manager; and I also have a project owner -- project manager organization that manages the SAP implementation and changes.

Q Okay. And just to clarify, the four -- you are a senior manager. There are -- it looks like there are five managers under you. Is it fair to say then that the first four of those managers, Reding, Grabenbauer, Taylor and Shackelford are all working on the SAP side of your organization's function?

A That is correct.

Q All right.

A There are portions of the Grabenbauer job that do apply across the entire organization.

Q Okay.

A But mostly it is all SAP.

Q Okay. By deduction then, it suggests that the -- the manager listed as Johnson -- and by the way that is Lauri Johnson?

A Yes, it is.

Q She is the manager handling the new and change part of your organization?

A There's actually two pieces to her job, one of them is the new and change process. The other portion is our SAP help desk. And she manages the SAP help desk. There are three -- we call them level 2 support -- we actually call them tier support, not to be confused with the other way we are using tier today.

Q Okay.

A But it is the SAP help desk, second level support.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: So that Tier II out to the side means it is not associated at all with --

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: -- the unit staff? Okay. All right.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. So then it sounds like even Lauri Johnson owns part of your organization's SAP --

A That is correct.

Q -- part? Okay. Now then let's just go quickly through the people that report to -- well, let's step back a second.

Looking at your five managers, which of those five have represented employees somewhere within their organization?

A Lauri Johnson is the only -- is the only area.

Q So Lauri is -- okay. Lauri is the only person who has either indirect supervisory responsibility for tiered employees?

A Correct.

Q All right. And of her people, the people that report to her, another name -- Boryca --

A Boryca.

Q -- Fuksa, Granderson, Jimerson and Carter, of those which ones supervise tiered employees?

A Carter.

Q All right. And those are who we are referring to as the drafters and the planners?

A Correct.

Q And they are the people that have been referred to throughout the proceeding as materials management analysts?

A Yes.

Q Okay.

A Except for the drafters. They are not the materials management analysts. They truly are drafters.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: And they are listed in the -- they are drafting analysts and senior drafting analysts?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: We'll step back a second. The new and change portion of your organization's responsibilities, is that akin to what in manufacturing is typically referred to as project management?

A Part of it is project management. Excuse me I have a tickle.

Yes, it is project management and it is planning and it is both activities.

Q Do you need a glass of water?

A I think I am okay.

Q Let me know. We are short on water but we have meds.

To the extent that your organization has a project management component to it, could you explain what that is, please?

A Okay. Project management as a discipline is my background and project management is the ownership of a project. It is a -- it is the overall management of an introduction of some type of project. They can be any project.

It can be new product, which is what we are referring to here. We also have an SAP component that has a project management.

Normally the project manager deals with budgetary issues, risk management, coordination of that entire project, everything of the coordination nature, all of the dependencies that relate to it, cross-functional organizational management. Usually a project manager does not have the people reporting to them that they need to -- they are a support group and so they don't have the people reporting to them that actually do the work.

So they have to learn to coordinate. They have to learn to cajole, if you will, to get people -- hold people responsible. They have to be leaders that go out and they work the process. They work with all people from different organizations and that truly is the project managers in my organization. It describes them very well.

Each of my project managers does cross-functional organizational work.

Q Okay. And who are your project managers?

A I have two. One is Jackie Corzine who does the SAP project management. And Marla Granderson who does the new product introduction project management.

Q Okay. And you are referring to Marla Granderson as a project manager but is her title, in fact, assistant project manager?

A Yes, it is.

Q Okay. Let's show a job description here.

MR. NOLAN: By the way, I would like to move E-15 in, please.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Any objection?

MR. KING: Could I ask one or two questions?

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Sure.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

MR. KING: This is a -- I don't know if you have had the opportunity to see some of the organizational charts. This is a totally different display --

THE WITNESS: Um-hmm.

MR. KING: -- and it is dated eight days ago. Was this recently generated in order to display for this purpose?

THE WITNESS: No, it was actually dated three days ago -- or five -- or whenever the date was because I had someone leave my organization last week and so it had to be updated to reflect that information.

This actually was created last year.

MR. KING: And if you have access to any -- I don't know what is left up there. You are familiar with the other organization charts? Is there a reason that this one is different as far as --

THE WITNESS: There is a reason why it is different and the reason is because in an SAP organization, I try and get cross functionality of support.

For example, all of the people that are listed under sales support, Anderson, Hartmann, Inti and Plumer, those are people and it reflects individuals.

And they do very much cross functional work as far as configuring SAP, setting it up to work properly, doing the testing, doing the design work that is required and they are very cross functional. And so when I say sales support, they all do sales support.

MR. KING: Okay. And then -- I don't know if counsel will get to it but I will ask --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All I need to know about this document -- or all I think we really need to know is, are any of these people under sales support, project management, SCM, finance, and the named people under N&C and Tier II, are any of those people tiered people -- tiered, unit people, represented people?

THE WITNESS: The unit people on this chart are the drafters and planners.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Who are not named?

THE WITNESS: Who are not names.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

THE WITNESS: And the position -- Storjohann --

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: She is your --

THE WITNESS: She is my secretary.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. And that is a unit position?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right. That is what I needed to know.

MR. NOLAN: Well, you are not done?

MR. KING: No, I will -- I think I am.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Do you want to save it for cross? That is fine.

MR. KING: Yes, yes, that is fine.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Do you have any problem with the document itself?

MR. KING: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. We will receive it.

(Employer Exhibit 15 received into evidence.)

MR. NOLAN: And for further clarity's sake, maybe we just want to stipulate that the individual named Granderson, is also the person with the title of assistant project manager who the Union is seeking, whose inclusion the Union is seeking.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. All right.

MR. NOLAN: Is that --

MR. KING: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. That is who you guys are looking for?

MR. KING: Correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right. Okay.

MR. NOLAN: They want Granderson.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: All right.

MR. NOLAN: If we could now mark this document as Employer's Exhibit 16, please.

(Employer Exhibit 16 marked for identification.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Marj, if you could take a look at that, please. Okay. Are you familiar with this document, Marj?

A Yes.

Q What is it?

A It is the job description for the assistant project manager.

Q All right. It is somewhat devoid of title or form or otherwise. Do you know who prepared this?

A It was a combination of Marla Granderson, Lauri Johnson, and Gretchen Riemersma.

Q And do you know when they prepared this?

A This was prepared in -- it was begun in December and January when I did a re-plan of my organization.

Q And what -- why the need to prepare a job description at that time?

A Well, it was -- this was actually a revised job description. We had gone through quite a few organizational changes between the time that we had implemented SAP, which was basically a very different structure, and about a year ago when we changed organizational structure.

So we went back and re-evaluated all the different job positions and rewrote them.

Q Okay. And I believe you indicated that the incumbent employee, Granderson, had input into the preparation of this document?

A Yes, she did.

Q Okay. Okay, using this document as you see fit, could you now explain for us, building upon what you have already told us project management is, what the assistant project manager does within your organization and Connectivity generally?

A The assistant project manager in my organization coordinates the manufacturing piece of new product introduction, or new project introduction. We have a current project going on right now that has multiple new products in it and those multiple new products are managed together because they have a common implementation date.

And so what this project manager does is coordinates all of the projects surrounding the manufacture of those products. They interface with R&D, the research and design group. They interface with purchasing operations, global planning, engineering in the Connectivity building here and manufacturing.

They -- they interface with or they work with the tier employees that report to us and the project manager coordinates with the tier employees that work for Marcia.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Marcia? Marcia?

THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Ms. Grothe.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: We started talking about this before and I am going to follow up on it. The title is assistant project manager. Correct?

A Correct.

Q Is there someone in your organization other than the SAP project manager that wears the hat of project manager for new products?

A No.

Q So is it fair to say then that the project manager function, the project management function that you talked about generally previously is done by Ms. Granderson?

A The true project management role is a product line management function. And the assistant project manager works under that product line manager, project manager, to set up the manufacturing portion of the project.

Q Okay.

A The overall project management is -- involves customer interfacing and -- and marketing development and those kinds of things.

Q Okay. So for a given product, who would be what you are referring to as the true product manager? Where are they?

A The true product managers are located in our product line management group and they work in -- it is currently being moved to Richardson, Texas.

Q And so that is where one of the project managers that Mr. Granderson would work with on the project management side of things, that is where one of those folks would be?

A That is correct.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Is there a specific person that is the project manager that she works for?

THE WITNESS: There are multiple project managers.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: She is an assistant to all of them?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Or one of them? Okay. And are those the people listed over there, Corzine, Muinov?

THE WITNESS: No, they are not in my organization.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: They are elsewhere with Connectivity Solutions?

A Correct.

Q And who she works with on a given product is a function of which project manager happens to be responsible for that product?

A That is correct.

Q And so she is the only person in your organization that has project management responsibility for new products?

A That is correct.

Q And you said, I believe, product managers themselves, although some are resident in Omaha, that is soon to change?

A No, they are actually resident -- they are actually split amongst the different product lines. There is a transition plan in place for people that are in Atlanta, you know, currently being transferred to Texas.

There are, for some of the ICS, or cabinet product line, they are in Omaha, but mostly we work with the people in -- that are transferring to Texas.

Q Okay. So the project managers that Ms. Granderson works with are not involved?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. So then I guess we can say -- I guess we can say that she is the only person in Omaha that performs the project management function for new products?

A Correct.

Q Do you agree with that statement?

A Yes.

MR. NOLAN: Okay. I would just like to offer E-16, please. That is the job description.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Do you have any objection to the job description?

MR. KING: No.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: It is received.

MR. NOLAN: Thank you.

(Employer Exhibit 16 received into evidence.)

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Now, Marj, I have shown you what we have marked for identification purposes as Employer's Exhibit No. 17. Would you take a look at that, please, and let me know if you are familiar with it?

(Employer Exhibit 17 marked for identification.)

A Yes.

Q Okay.

A I am.

Q Why don't you describe for us what this document represents?

A This document is a representation very much of how we -- we work on a new project and so it delineates the responsibilities between each of the activities and organizations that are done.

Q Okay. Let's go through -- and I take it where it says from APM:, that refers to a function of the assistant project manager?

A Yes.

Q Okay. What is the PLM:?

A Product line manager.

Q Is that what we have been referring to before as the project manager who is located somewhere else within the Company?

A Yes.

Q And that is -- they are assigned on a product by product basis?

A Yes.

Q Okay. ENG:? Engineer?

A Engineer.

Q In your facility?

A Let me check this one. We do work with R&D engineers also. I would have to read the specific line to tell you which one it is.

Q Okay. But when we say engineer, we mean a true professional engineer somewhere in Avaya --

A Yes.

Q -- not a represented employee?

A Absolutely.

Q And then, of course, we see Tier V:, that does mean the Tier 5's?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Kind of tracking this document, why don't you take us through it step by step and let us know what is happening here to give us a better sense of what the assistant project manager is doing, focusing when we get to it on their interaction with the tiered employees?

A Um-hmm. The first line says, assigned to new projects by product line manager. This is a little redundant now but we used to have more APM's than one and so then there was an assignment based on -- on the different kind of product that it was. So basically this is the beginning of a new project.

The second step says, decision making sessions, gates 1, 2 and 3. The gate process is a project management tool. There are six gates that have to be gone through.

There is an opportunity statement and that is basically what we -- and the opportunity of -- of the new product, the sales opportunities, the revenue opportunities and so forth.

They then establish the requirements and the business recommendations and so forth.

Q And to --

A This is actually the beginning of the project.

Q Okay. Sorry to interrupt but this is -- are these -- when you say decision making sessions, are decisions being made as to whether or not to go forward with the product?

A Yes, they are.

Q And the assistant project manager is -- what are they doing in these sessions? Are these actual meetings or --

A They are meetings --

Q -- phone conferences?

A They are teleconferences. Since we have remote locations, they are mostly teleconferences. And those are decision making sessions where the APM is a participant.

Q Okay. Continue, please.

A Okay. The -- when the project has been determined that we are going to go forward with it, then we put it on a library and it is a web based tool that we have to manage that particular project and everyone has access to it that is available to the project as far as working on the project.

The tool is -- I think right now we have -- well, anyway it is a documentation tool.

Q Okay. So, again, sorry to interrupt you. Just so we are clear, gates are another way of saying steps in the process?

A They are go, no-go decisions basically.

Q Okay.

A Normally in a project management tool like that, you have certain check points that you go through.

Q Okay. And so the Gate IV, put it on E Library to track project, realistically that is not a decision, though, is it? I mean, that is just an action item?

A That probably is an action item, yes.

Q And E Library, that is just a shared resource that everyone involved in the project can see the project status?

A That is correct.

Q Okay. I'm sorry. Continue, please.

A The next step on those sheets is the APM, tracks the project task for on time completion from all team members. That is true project management work.

Q Making sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing, when they are supposed to be doing it?

A That is correct. They have put the project plan together and the next step will be for the APM to assign the Tier 5 to the new project.

Now so this would be where the APM is starting to coordinate that activity. The actual assignment is done by the Tier 5 supervisor.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Can I stop her for a second? Does that mean like assign a drafter or a planner to the project at this point?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay. Thank you.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: In terms of which actual planner the APM is going to assign, the supervisor basically give the APM -- says here, go to this person?

A In the org --

Q Is there a functional connection there or how does that work?

A The organization, we have roles and responsibilities, depending on the type of project it is, is how the assignment is made.

Q Okay. But just so we are clear, the APM, the assistant project manager, doesn’t have discretion in choosing which represented employee to hand off to, correct? I mean, maybe they do. If I --

A I don't understand the question.

Q I apologize. That was a bad question.

Does the APM have discretion as to which tiered employee to utilize in this capacity?

A Within the process. There is a process and there is designation as to which tier employee handles which kind of product within and so if there were multiple, then the -- there potentially could be discretion but there is none -- there is no discretion today. It is a set assignment.

Q Okay.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: But it is up to the unit persons and supervisor to assign it to a particular person?

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: I believe that is what he is asking you.

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Okay.

Q BY MR. NOLAN: Okay. So the assignment, what does that entail?

A The assignment to the Tier 5 is the -- the first task, I believe, is the initialization of the checklist. The checklist process that we have -- in an integrated system like SAP, it is critical that you have very good master data so when we start off the process we have to establish what we call a material ID. So a part would have a material ID and all it subsequent parts would have material ID.

We manage that process through something -- a web tool that we have developed called a checklist, a material checklist, and the Tier 5 is, as you can see on two steps later, is responsible for starting that checklist.

Q And from there -- because I don't think we need to worry about what the engineer is doing. Why don't you just continue with the process focusing on what the APM and the tiered folks are doing and not so much the engineer?

A Okay. The tier then, the next step on the charts is the tier transfers the piece parts only to the Tier 4. My organization is very similar to Marcia's in that I have Tier 4's and Tier 5's. They do planning functions. They actually have MRP controller codes that are assigned to them.

And except for the initialization and the extra coordination that goes into a new product, they do very similar functions like scheduling of parts. They pro -- the go out and procure work with purchasing. They write purchase requests or requisitions and those kinds of things. So that is what some of this is documenting.

And on the Tier 5, the Tier 5 does transfer those lower levels of the bill of material, like Marcia was talking about before, that -- to the Tier 4, so they can manage that activity.

The -- the next is an engineering step. The APM receives those quantities. Again, this is another task that the APM does in managing samples, managing prototypes and initial production, working with a whole series of organizations to come to the final plan.

The APM then provides those dates and quantities to the Tier 4's so they can actually do the scheduling for those tool made samples and for those initial production quantities.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Off the record.

(Off the record.)

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Back on the record.

Okay. It is a quarter to 6:00 and we have got some logistical problems with vehicles. We need to take -- we need to adjourn for the evening and I apologize to the witness for stopping her midstream in her testimony, but we have got -- I have made a mark on the document, Employer's Exhibit 17 where we stopped and we can resume right there tomorrow morning at 8:15, which is, I think, when we agreed to resume in the morning.

And we will go forward. And those of you who parked in that parking lot where you have to be out by 6:00, don't park there tomorrow.

I am just telling you, we are going through until we finish.

MR. KING: It will be done tomorrow at some point.

HEARING OFFICER TAVES: Off the record.

(Whereupon, at 5:45 p.m., Tuesday, March 26, 2002, the hearing in the above-entitled matter was adjourned until 8:15 a.m., Wednesday, March 27, 2002.)